Australian Server will be in Singapore not Australia Until Infrastructure is created

  • Ottomatic_Reiffel

    Posts: 33

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    You forget that many of us backed way before $25 million was raised and did not base our funding on the establishment of AU servers. For me, I'm considering it a nice bonus.

    Sure I backed well before $25 million, but I did bump up my pledge when that stretch goal was announced.
  • CptUnderpants

    Posts: 5491

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    Singapore servers suck so bad. We will see in our verse only chinese ships... :/ they will fall appart just by turning them on

    Not sure if serious or...
    CptUnderpants
  • Bah

    Posts: 10626

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    Bah | Bah said:
    [hide]

    While I sympathize with our fellow Aussies backers, the amount of drama on this thread is incompatible with the size of the problem.
    1 - Every game is playable with 200ms ping, SC included. I have played under way worse pings than that just fine. It's not optimal, but it's doable, it's hard to take someone that exaggerates his arguments like that seriously.
    2 - You will be getting an official local server post launch. That's more than many backers can say, myself included.We will be stuck with "unplayable" 200+ ms ping for the foreseeable future, should we give the game up altogether if it's that bad?

    There's a few people in here who are annoyed by the fact that they're not fulfilling that stretch goal, but behaving like adults. However, I admit I'm negatively impressed by the amount of childish reactions in here, I honestly expected better.

    What bloody game is good on 200 ping , because its none of the PC games Ive played since Doom 1
    Most if not ALL PC games - RTS , RPG , Third person Shooters and FPS games are BEST UNDER 100 ,
    playableish at 100 to 125 , starting to really stuff up at 125 to 150 and over 150 it goes down hill
    let alone 200 when you get a HUGE disadvantage


    Sure online MMO's like Runes of Magic , WOW , Everquest, etc might be fine at 200 , but they would have systems in place , definally not the case for flying a space ship or heli above 200 ping
    Like I said, it's not optimal, but still playable. including all the ones you mentioned.

    It might be because I've hardly ever played a game with a national server (closest I've got in the last few years was a bunch of matches on Chivalry), but I can live just fine with above 200ms.
    Would it be better if it was under 50? Sure. Will not having that ping prevent me from playing? Hell, no.

    When I wrote about this being blown out of proportion it's because they have confirmed that there will be an Australian SC server. That's more many in here will ever get.

    Of course they did promise the server for the alpha, and I do understand the people who are upset about their change of heart (and I'm not defending them, btw). What I don't get is people acting like this is the end of the world.
  • FecklessFleas

    Posts: 64

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Bah | Bah said:
    [hide]

    [hide]

    Bah | Bah said:
    [hide]

    While I sympathize with our fellow Aussies backers, the amount of drama on this thread is incompatible with the size of the problem.
    1 - Every game is playable with 200ms ping, SC included. I have played under way worse pings than that just fine. It's not optimal, but it's doable, it's hard to take someone that exaggerates his arguments like that seriously.
    2 - You will be getting an official local server post launch. That's more than many backers can say, myself included.We will be stuck with "unplayable" 200+ ms ping for the foreseeable future, should we give the game up altogether if it's that bad?

    There's a few people in here who are annoyed by the fact that they're not fulfilling that stretch goal, but behaving like adults. However, I admit I'm negatively impressed by the amount of childish reactions in here, I honestly expected better.

    What bloody game is good on 200 ping , because its none of the PC games Ive played since Doom 1
    Most if not ALL PC games - RTS , RPG , Third person Shooters and FPS games are BEST UNDER 100 ,
    playableish at 100 to 125 , starting to really stuff up at 125 to 150 and over 150 it goes down hill
    let alone 200 when you get a HUGE disadvantage


    Sure online MMO's like Runes of Magic , WOW , Everquest, etc might be fine at 200 , but they would have systems in place , definally not the case for flying a space ship or heli above 200 ping
    Like I said, it's not optimal, but still playable. including all the ones you mentioned.

    It might be because I've hardly ever played a game with a national server (closest I've got in the last few years was a bunch of matches on Chivalry), but I can live just fine with above 200ms.
    Would it be better if it was under 50? Sure. Will not having that ping prevent me from playing? Hell, no.

    When I wrote about this being blown out of proportion it's because they have confirmed that there will be an Australian SC server. That's more many in here will ever get.

    Of course they did promise the server for the alpha, and I do understand the people who are upset about their change of heart (and I'm not defending them, btw). What I don't get is people acting like this is the end of the world.
    Different people will have different thresholds of what's playable. In Australia very few people will play an FPS (for example) if there isn't a server on Australian soil. There are some who will endure it, but for most it degrades the experience to the point of not being fun.

    I feel like a bastard making that argument, and I hope you'll ignore us whingeing Aussies and enjoy what could well be the greatest game ever made :)

    But I doubt I'll be joining you in the PU before we get a shiny server. I guess I'll focus my excitement on SQ42 for the time being.
    r311nY4.png
  • Solo_Wing_Pixy_Galm2

    Posts: 286

    Posted:
    Posted:
    I currently live in Singapore as an expat. Though I have been living there for 9 years XD

    A server set up in SG? Awesome. I will get the lowest lag :D
    Use my referral code and earn free 5,000 UEC instantly on sign up!:

    STAR-ZXJC-XNF3
  • CptUnderpants

    Posts: 5491

    Posted:
    Posted:
    FzFleas:
    [hide]

    Different people will have different thresholds of what's playable. In Australia very few people will play an FPS (for example) if there isn't a server on Australian soil. There are some who will endure it, but for most it degrades the experience to the point of not being fun.

    The netcode in its final form is meant to use client side hit detection with server side confirmation to prevent aimbotting. This will help mitigate most latency issues.
    CptUnderpants
  • Dassem_Ultor

    Posts: 32

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    FzFleas:
    [hide]

    Different people will have different thresholds of what's playable. In Australia very few people will play an FPS (for example) if there isn't a server on Australian soil. There are some who will endure it, but for most it degrades the experience to the point of not being fun.

    The netcode in its final form is meant to use client side hit detection with server side confirmation to prevent aimbotting. This will help mitigate most latency issues.
    Has there been any game/games that have implemented this type of system were it has succeeded as intended?
    Because I don't know of any that have worked to the extent were it could be called a success.

  • Dassem_Ultor

    Posts: 32

    Posted:
    Edited: by Dassem_Ultor
    Posted:
    Edited:
    So the first of the press article have begun...

    games.on.net/2014/11/star-citizen-australian-server/

    Tall Poppy Syndrome is a vicious creature, once it takes hold unfortunately.
    Hopefully something can be done/said (Mr Roberts) to stop this before it gets out of hand.
  • eScourge

    Posts: 56

    Posted:
    Posted:
    The real reason they are keeping our server off shore is to handicap us, because everyone knows the best space pilots are Australians.

    But seriously guys, can we reel it in a little? I'm sure CiG have got the message and are working on a definitive answer for us. I pledged at the 11 mil mark so the server would be a great bonus for me. Whichever way it goes I will play SQ42 and the PU and enjoy the hell out of them. As I stated previously I'm sure they will what's best for the project, which is obvious to me, don't forget CiG are industry professionals with a hell of a lotta accumulated experience and know how. Have some faith.
  • Darkhoplite

    Posts: 268

    Posted:
    Posted:
    I think a lot of people are missing the point;

    It's a called accountability, but I see many people trying to sugar coat things on why it's ok to for us not to have a server.

    Sorry. But the facts are in the stretch goal. I'm happy to support the game until that pledge is dishonoured.
    I9oYtKL.png
  • Peredach

    Posts: 515

    Posted:
    Posted:
    unfortunately our Australian friends get shafted a lot by a lack of good Internet infrastructure.
    Good tea is always the answer.
  • Dassem_Ultor

    Posts: 32

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    unfortunately our Australian friends get shafted a lot by a lack of good Internet infrastructure.

    Okay, there seems to be a lack of communication here.
    'Internet infrastructure' is not a Server, which is the issue.

  • s_p_a_r_k_s

    Posts: 426

    Posted:
    Edited: by s_p_a_r_k_s
    Posted:
    Edited:
    Sumeragi:
    [hide]

    Good. I happen to be from Singapore.

    Our downloads for Star Citizen is currently at 20mbps+ on fiber. Loving it.

    Australia's bad ping is due to their outdated infrastructure and also their length of the undersea cable iirc... gotta invest in your infrastructure budds

    Well unfortunately our country is currently run by a turd in a suit, which makes it more than a little difficult to do anything useful
  • crispydragon

    Posts: 13750

    Posted:
    Edited: by crispydragon
    Posted:
    Edited:
    [hide]

    So the first of the press article have begun...

    games.on.net/2014/11/star-citizen-australian-server/

    Tall Poppy Syndrome is a vicious creature, once it takes hold unfortunately.
    Hopefully something can be done/said (Mr Roberts) to stop this before it gets out of hand.

    I sincerely doubt this will "get out of hand"
    RIP Merchantman 2013-2013



  • User-Deceased

    Posts: 1116

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Looking at refunds?

    The fact is IIRC, the first mention of a definite Australian server was Stretchgoal $25 million (achieved 27/10/2014). Somebody connect me to an earlier date if there is one.

    Anything you pledged before any Australian server was announced would not be refundable on non-delivery of an Australian server, since there was no expectation of a local server no matter how much was raised..

    Anything after that could be refundable only after Star Citizen is at the end of Alpha. So CIG can still meet that Stretch Goal if they choose to put resources into it.

    Any additional money after the whole Singapore Server issue became public would probably not be refundable for forum users, since they are aware of the current state of matters (Just remember that before pledging any additional funds in the Anniversary sale or on new concept ships). Since it has only just been revealed that CIG chose Google Compute without some kind of assurance that Google would have an Australian facility operational by end of Alpha, then forum users could use the date of this thread. Melting and CCUs, and buying ships on credit should be fine, this CIG already has the money, and you cannot get a refund at this time.

    As long as the $25 million goal is up and left unaltered, people who can show they didn't visit the forums and were unaware CIG had made the Singapore announcement might be able to get refunds for pledging after that date. Remember, Australia was explicitly mentioned as planned for getting servers. The $25 million goal was for additional servers beyond the intial North American, followed by European and Australian servers with the implied meaning of "Enhanced Alpha" being these would occur during the Alpha phase, since extra Alpha slots were also announced in this goal based on additional servers. CIG could ammend that $25 million goal with an adendum stating their current intent to locate an Oceanic server in Singapore, and no local Australian server unless a Google Compute facility is built here. This would avoid allegations of false and misleading advertising from the date such an adendum was added.

    CIG has until the end of Alpha to get an Australian server up and running before any refund could be claimed (so keep calm for 12 months or so and watch what you spend if Singapore is an issue to you).
  • Orsk

    Posts: 868

    Banned
    Posted:
    Banned
    Posted:
    [hide]

    FzFleas:
    [hide]

    Different people will have different thresholds of what's playable. In Australia very few people will play an FPS (for example) if there isn't a server on Australian soil. There are some who will endure it, but for most it degrades the experience to the point of not being fun.

    The netcode in its final form is meant to use client side hit detection with server side confirmation to prevent aimbotting. This will help mitigate most latency issues.
    have a source link for that ?

    Im personally horrified if that is the solution.

    Client side ANYTHING is just basically fucking asking for excessive cheating/hacking.

    If your client decides to hit the target, it will hit the target 100% of the time and the server wont be able to do dick to prevent it.

    There are kiddy hacks, then there is seriously smart hacks out there.

    The best one i've seen is a validation overlay that doesnt mess with the game directly. Its based in principal on the below link:

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/145332-real-world-aimbot-the-17000-rifle-with-a-linux-powered-scope

    Basically it does the exact same thing, but for the game.

    So you specify a target (the game isnt aware of it), you line up the target and when your weapon/crosshairs are on target the app fires for you. It's configurable obviously, so you can have it burst 3-4 single shots leading into the target and then after the target.... magically landing a hit every time.

    I've seen people that 2 hit body in bf4, then 1 hit head... there was a guy who had nothing over 21% accuracy.. but magically landed 200+ headshot killing blows in a row.. back to back, over 5 rounds... truely magical stuff. Pitty all of that amazeing action was surrounded buy normal gameplay and shooting etc.. Fairfair (laughs hard) cant detect it via stats, toggle it on/off at your will - or when the odds are against you (proximity check vs enemy etc).

    Here is hoping that CIG have a seriously stat crazy tracking system so that any "lotto" winning streak of amazing odds ends up with your account being banned for review.

    There are good people(gaming wise), sure, but 99.9% of the population dont win the lotto ever, that .1% sure as shit dont win the lotto multiple times in a game round/day/week. The odds against that are just insane and with a few billion people on the planet I think the record is like 5 lotto wins in a life time.

  • Orsk

    Posts: 868

    Banned
    Posted:
    Edited: by AngryPeas
    Banned
    Posted:
    Edited:
    [hide]

    unfortunately our Australian friends get shafted a lot by a lack of good Internet infrastructure.

    *pushes you into the group of people labled "Idiots that know fuck all" *

    Please dont speak about shit you know nothing about, moreso... if you've read the 100+ posts in this thread about the Aussie infrastructure you'd have learned that its not an issue on our side, the issue is SG and the connections heading into that country.

    Please dont make statements on shit you just dont understand.

    Text struck for Violation of Rule 1

  • CptUnderpants

    Posts: 5491

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    have a source link for that ?

    Im personally horrified if that is the solution.

    Client side ANYTHING is just basically fucking asking for excessive cheating/hacking.

    If your client decides to hit the target, it will hit the target 100% of the time and the server wont be able to do dick to prevent it.

    As I said in my earlier post, it was summed up by a notible member of chatroll who I believe discussed it with the devs as PAX Australia. I will get confirmation when they're online, perhaps ask them to post here.

    The idea for the final game is that hits will be calculated locally.. the server will also be calculating in the background but your local hit calculations will be used. If the backend server calculations are consistently outside of a certain threshold to what the server thinks should be happening the game will assume you're aimbotting and revert you back to server-side only calculations.

    I really don't think you should stress so much. Most of the devs on the SC team are veterans of the industry and would have seen every hack and cheat imaginable. I'm sure they will have it well in hand.
    CptUnderpants
  • Orsk

    Posts: 868

    Banned
    Posted:
    Edited: by AngryPeas
    Banned
    Posted:
    Edited:
    ferret304:
    [hide]

    Sumeragi:
    [hide]

    Good. I happen to be from Singapore.

    Our downloads for Star Citizen is currently at 20mbps+ on fiber. Loving it.

    Australia's bad ping is due to their outdated infrastructure and also their length of the undersea cable iirc... gotta invest in your infrastructure budds

    Well unfortunately our country is currently run by a turd in a suit, which makes it more than a little difficult to do anything useful

    Firstly: Chuck's quote .

    1) You are one seriously

    stupid moron

    if you think the issues are "length" of the sea cable.. We can get to the USA (10-20X further) at the same speed, often less, that getting to SG.
    2) Your on fibre and only pulling at 20mbps? On copper i can pull at 25mbps... On fibre I've can pull at 100mbps - so does that mean your on shit infrastructure ?
    3) Outdated infrastructure ? Lol

    Secondly: Sumeragi quote.

    1) I dont want to turn this post into a political pissing contest, but the person at the top is irrelevant, NBN to your residential home will make 0% difference to this issue.
    2) Read up on a CCNA book, learn how network works, look at the problem - the issue is clear and has been for years.

    Text Struck for Violation of Rule 1

  • Orsk

    Posts: 868

    Banned
    Posted:
    Banned
    Posted:
    [hide]

    unfortunately our Australian friends get shafted a lot by a lack of good Internet infrastructure.

    Yes, lots of crappy internet infrastructure heading into SG. AU doesnt have issues connecting to dozens of other countries - just SG. More reliable to connect to the USA and play on servers there than attempt to play on SG servers (and about the same speed as well, tho its the other side of the planet, compared to SG's stone throw away distance).

    Shit connections to SG from Australia. Worst of all. shortest distance 10+ years that I know of.
    Shit connections to SG from Japan. Third worst. second shortest. 4+ years that I know of.
    Shit connections to SG from the UK. Second worst. third shortest. 7+ years that I know of.

    I'm seeing a pattern here.. I wonder what it is... hmm could it be inbound infrastructure into SG? I think so.


  • Telinoz

    Posts: 3358

    Posted:
    Posted:
    ferret304:
    [hide]

    Sumeragi:
    [hide]

    Good. I happen to be from Singapore.

    Our downloads for Star Citizen is currently at 20mbps+ on fiber. Loving it.

    Australia's bad ping is due to their outdated infrastructure and also their length of the undersea cable iirc... gotta invest in your infrastructure budds

    Well unfortunately our country is currently run by a turd in a suit, which makes it more than a little difficult to do anything useful
    +1
    i0t9C9L.png
  • Orsk

    Posts: 868

    Banned
    Posted:
    Banned
    Posted:
    [hide]

    [hide]

    have a source link for that ?

    Im personally horrified if that is the solution.

    Client side ANYTHING is just basically fucking asking for excessive cheating/hacking.

    If your client decides to hit the target, it will hit the target 100% of the time and the server wont be able to do dick to prevent it.

    As I said in my earlier post, it was summed up by a notible member of chatroll who I believe discussed it with the devs as PAX Australia. I will get confirmation when they're online, perhaps ask them to post here.

    The idea for the final game is that hits will be calculated locally.. the server will also be calculating in the background but your local hit calculations will be used. If the backend server calculations are consistently outside of a certain threshold to what the server thinks should be happening the game will assume you're aimbotting and revert you back to server-side only calculations.

    I really don't think you should stress so much. Most of the devs on the SC team are veterans of the industry and would have seen every hack and cheat imaginable. I'm sure they will have it well in hand.
    Thanks for the info, moreso the amazing speed :)

    ps: yeah I have faith that the team with CIG are the "real deal" and will overcome and achieve what all the "good" studios have failed to do. *(here is looking at you Dice, Bioware, Blizzard, Valve, *insert cod horrors*)

    pps: Just looking at the state of the game currently - what they have achieved and brought together is just amazing. Big picture it's the 0.5% of perfection that 95% of the bitching and moaning (myself included in that pile) is about... but us gamers are perfectionists :)
  • Sonder

    Posts: 7

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Hi, new to the community and may not be the right place to ask this. If/when Australia gets a Google Compute server would the Singapore server still exist or disappear? I couldn't find anything elsewhere on the site.

    Australian living in Singapore who will head back to Australia only in a few years and hopes both servers will exist!
  • crispydragon

    Posts: 13750

    Posted:
    Posted:
    I would wager it would close..not many people need it and it would be a money drain
    RIP Merchantman 2013-2013



  • CptUnderpants

    Posts: 5491

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    If/when Australia gets a Google Compute server would the Singapore server still exist or disappear? I couldn't find anything elsewhere on the site.

    CIG being able to dynamically spin up instance nodes is a big plus because it means that wherever their compatible compute provider(s) have services, they can tell it to spin up. This means a likely yes Singapore's nodes will be a valid target for dynamic instances.
    CptUnderpants
  • imp_phoenix

    Posts: 112

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Realistically the reason I pledged into SC was for SQ42 first and foremost. With the Idea PU also being awesome (hence I brought my reclaimer) but so long as I have missions for SQ42 until AUS servers are up I will be happy.
    "You call that flying; better put in for your pension" -: Colonel Christopher Blair
  • croberts68

    Developer

    Posted:
    Edited: by croberts68
    Posted:
    Edited:
    [hide]

    [hide]

    15 pages for a debunked OP. What the F is going on with the mods around here?

    Have you not read this at all. It is not debunked. the $25million stretch goal states

    " Enhanced Alpha – We will use additional funding to build a wider alpha test than we had originally intended for the first phase of Star Citizen’s launch. The initial plan was to first launch servers in North America and then expand to areas such as Europe and Australia to decrease latency in these areas, perfecting the game as we improve the experience around the world. This funding will allow us to invest in a wider infrastructure for our early testing, spinning up remote servers earlier. Hitting this goal will also allow us to increase the number of remaining alpha slots. Extra alpha slots not only means more Star Citizens will travel the ‘verse at launch, but that we will receive more feedback and more stress testing. This in turn will allow us to better balance and enhance the Star Citizen experience!"


    So for us Aussies this has not been met.

    CR's response is

    "Horse's mouth here.

    The discussion about Australian servers was taken out of context.

    The issue is that we're building our PU server framework on Google Compute and doing a lot of things like dynamically spinning up and down servers on demand. It is possible for us to have a non Google Compute server extension but that will require additional logic and code. So for the early stages (like pre-Star Citizen v1.0 launch) we will probably be limited to places where Google Compute is available. Which is where Singapore came up as I believe the closest Google Compute data server to Australia is based there. If Google sets up a data center locally to Australia then we would enable nodes there. In fact part of the design we are going for is to allow us to spin up and down game servers via Google Compute as geographically co-located as possible - not just limited to the usual suspects like North America, Europe and Asia Pacific. This is the longer term goal but one where you get to harness the true power of "cloud computing" for a better game experience.

    p.s. I am writing this from Australia :-)"

    This response is no guarantee that we will in fact have an Aussie server, only that it is possible some time and a maybe at best.

    Considering Australia is the 3rd largest backers of SC and many backers pledged for the game because of an Aussie server, in our eyes the $25 Million stretch goal has not been met.

    If you were told that you would have a server in the USA for a game but it was then located in Hawaii with a huge ping I bet you would not be happy
    Does everyone assuming the worst and raging on here realizes that the only servers that anyone is playing on are in North America at the moment?

    I did NOT say there would not be servers in Australia. And contrary to everyone's outrage the $25M stretch goal doesn't promise servers in Australia right away. What we said was that our initial plan was to spin up servers in North America, then slowly expand to have servers in other areas like Europe and Australia once we launch to help decrease latency. The $25M stretch goal was to allow us to start this sooner, and allowing for servers in more than just North America for the early testing. We are STILL doing this. The stretch goal did not say Australia gets a server right away for early test BEFORE everyone else but North America.

    For the record we currently spend north of $80K a month on a combination of our servers and CDN (Content Delivery Network). This is all for early testing - it costs money for everyone to download the patches (yes we're working on making them smaller) and to have servers running 24/7. This doesn't include the Live Ops cost of people that maintain this - currently we have a 6 person team that focuses on this (this doesn't include the web team of Turbulent BTW). I'm pretty sure we're investing much more than anyone else to keep its community involved and up to date on a game that's still deep in development.

    We have chosen Google Compute for our initial cloud implementation as we think its the best combination of power, price and flexibility. We are attempting to build a dynamic server system where local nodes can be spun up to handle the hi-fidelity server "instances" in areas that would help reduce the ping for people that are matched together. Arena Commander is our test bed for this. When you join a multiplayer match you are currently connected to a game server by the matchmaking service. This server eventually will spin up on demand in an appropriate location to the people that the match maker has put together. In the PU as you travel around a Star System (or jump from one to another) every time you come out of "warp" (or jump) you'll be handed off to one of these server instances that will be spun up on demand taking into account where the people that have been contextually matched together are playing from. As we're first prototyping / building on Google Compute this will naturally happen where there are Google Compute data centers. With some extra work we can fold other Linux Server Cloud providers into the matchmaking and server management. But it doesn't make sense to do this before we've even finished the base system on Google Compute. Right now we spin up a fixed number of servers in the Google NA data center for the current multiplayer. One of the ongoing engineering tasks is to make this dynamic based on demand and then at different data centers around the world. Once this happens we would be ready to expand it to other cloud server providers if need be. Its pretty likely that Australia will get a local Google Compute data center before this but if not we would spend a little extra time making the backend system game server provider agnostic.

    So I would appreciate it if everyone put their pitchforks down, took a deep breath and actually be happy that we're thinking about how best to use the power of the cloud to allow for a better game experience for everyone, Australian's included.
  • crispydragon

    Posts: 13750

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Hi Chris, pleasure to see you =)
    RIP Merchantman 2013-2013



  • angelarch

    Posts: 27605

    Posted:
    Posted:
    wow,,, there's 22 pages and still going about "the video game server is in a different country than mine"?


    TVfyvGZ.gif
  • crispydragon

    Posts: 13750

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Wait, it's 1AM here in California. I hope Chris is still in Australia, otherwise he woke up real early to kick ass =O
    RIP Merchantman 2013-2013



This discussion has been closed.