CGI: please continue to honor the pledge - UPDATED: Now with more Chris Roberts.

  • Shrike

    Posts: 82

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    The ask a dev thread isn't about asking individuals. That's a bit of a misconception. The entire section was reworked a month ago so that many different members of each group are answering the threads. Any number of people from each team can answer the questions in the threads (right now it's only 4 or 5 in a thread but it could be much more eventually). It's not just one dev per thread any more. There's some exceptions, in that Martin Galway is so far the only guy answering audio questions, and Dave Haddock is answering lore questions, for example.

    I agree It isn't a platform for a broader "state of the game" type broad-picture releases, but it's definitely a place you can ask each team about challenges they've had. Honestly nobody has even bothered trying in favor of asking about their wish-list features they would like to see in game. Asking abut the ship pipeline organization is definitely the kind of info the programers and producers could also answer. It's an underutilized section of the forums, that is often filled with the wrong kind of fluff questions, or misused as an outlet to complain about features and concept art they actually *did* release.

    The whole reason I brought it up wasn't to say that we couldn't have such broader updates but that there is another outlet for info in which appropriate queries could be directed. And as mentioned before, perhaps a clearer list of what each teams tasks are and what kinds of questions to ask at the header of each thread would help out a lot... that's probably a good start.

    Great. This actually helps put some of the 'but you HAVE lines of communication' 'they're not the kind we want!' disconnect to rest.

    I am still of the opinion that the month-in-retrospect sort of thing should probably be pushed out by the teams as opposed to pulled by the community because the threads would otherwise just end up with people incessantly asking for this month's update. Keep Ask A Dev forward-looking and have a View from the Cloud (Imperium) be the monthly update. Ultimately however that's up to you guys. If you want us to continue poking, we can.

    Edit: And I'd just like to support those (as I have also said elsewhere) that even with the channels existing right now, it feels like what's coming through is a trickle and/or hugely delayed. For example, despite three Ask A Dev threads about art, not a single one has any actual art posted in them.
  • Deliverance

    Posts: 207

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    Yeah, this issue again, I wonder if CIG even read my thread/suggestions on the matter?

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/83179/cig-communication-issues-forum-drama-and-my-suggestions

    One of the biggest frustrations of this process is the sheer amount of attention the vocal negative minority seem to get...
  • CynicalCyanide

    Posts: 3834

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    Guys - we have five plus posts a week on the game, we have a TV show where we tell you everything we did the previous week... and another one where the man in charge of the company directly answers your questions about the game. We have forums and chat where you can interact directly with the development team. We run polls and lore builder on the front page that let you impact the development of both the game and the universe. (And a monthly magazine about the project's development for subscribers!) I've seen so many of these posts this week, and I'm just left asking: what else can we do? And that's not an exasperated sigh, I'm genuinely interested in making sure we're doing everything we can for the community.

    It's true that a lot of aspects of the project are less sexy right now. People have their heads down building the systems we worked out last year. There will be periods where we don't have a new ship to reveal or a new level map to walk you through... but we aren't away hiding, we're still here interacting with you guys as much as we possibly can (while still building the BDSSE.)


    @wcloaf: Every week send a mass email to the dev staff asking them to volunteer a short single paragraph explaining what they got done that week. Perhaps include a pic if that's relevant.

    As simple as having 5-10 people post a paragraph of e.g. "Finished adding details on the gun turret on top of the Cutlass yesterday, tomorrow will be starting work on Constellation decals, but for now continuing on on XYZ. Next week we'll be deciding where the thrusters on the M50 will be." - Or whatever - will show people very quickly how much work is being done.

    If they can see solid evidence of progress like this, almost like hotfix/patch notes for the Hangar alpha, but instead for the game's development which we aren't seeing - Well I think that would be a very quick and effective way to keep everyone updated. Each short paragraph should only take 5 minutes to write up if that.
    Great minds talk about ideas. Average minds talk about things. Small minds talk about people.|My PC Hardware Guide: http://tinyurl.com/lxfhuvu |VTS is recruiting!.
  • Silent_Ruin

    Posts: 720

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    Thrum... Thrum... Thrum...

    The beat goes on :)

    9 hours later and the war of love in the forums still rages? Impressive.

    Well at this point I feel safe enough that there are enough text walls to camouflage anything I put in here - so I think I'll have a bit of fun purely for my own amusement :)

    As I've pointed out before this "war of love" to see who loves SC bestest - the "we don't feel we are informed" vs the "you'll be happy with what you get" factions - culminated in last nights battles between the love legions of each faction. Many of the combatants seemed to have separated out into single combat during the course of the battle - their posts targeting individuals in the other faction. Yet even while these islands of combat struggled across the threads - reinforcements kept appearing pushing their walls of text into the face of their enemy.

    The posts have become like a drum beat now - thrum (wall of text from the "we don't feel we are informed")... thrum (wall of text from the "you'll be happy with what you get")...

    And through it all the poor moderators try to herd the cats into this one place. This one battleground. This one thread. I hope they succeed - but I'm not holding my breath :)

    You see love is a funny thing - both factions in this war unquestionably love the idea behind the game SC - both however, as is often the case with love, are blind to this fact ;)

    Fight on brave forum warriors of both sides. I wish you both luck.

    For the rest of us, the beat - if you know what it sings about - the love of SC - can be quite.... soothing.

    Thrum.... thrum... thrum.... :)

    First Day of the 'verse I expect to hear the keening lament from many escape
    pods as they realize that NPC skills are not all set to "stupid".

    - SilentRuin
  • Academus

    Posts: 29

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    I think what many consider lacking is not "update" per se, but proof that development is moving forward at a nice pace.

    My suggestion:

    1. Monthly General Progress Report
    Shows how much work CIG have done.

    As previously suggested, it provides an overall view of how various tasks/modules are being developed; are they moving at the rate CIG wished; difficulties CIG encountered and how CIG fixed/plan to fix them, etc. The report doesn't need to give a progress %, nor pic/vid, just a plain "boring" text doc is more than enough to assure the community that work is being done.

    Eg. "DFM network coding is moving smoothly, internal test may start next month."
    "Freelancer variants have been decided, models are being created, one of them is close to finish and 2 more are half way through. We will confirm Constellation variants' role next month. Aurora's PBR is taking more time than expected."

    2. Consolidated Ask-a-Developer Commlink every two weeks
    Gathers 10 or 20 interesting/informative/important Q&A and repost them in commlink. In addition, transcripts of 104TC should also be included in this document.

    There are good reasons to do this:
    a, facilitates information flow around the community; very few people check every Ask-a-Developer thread, however everyone checks commlink. IMHO the frontpage is criminally underused as a tool of communicating with the community.

    b, provides an example of good question; if you want people to ask good, meaningful questions, you first need to show them what a good, meaningful question looks like, and then incentivise them to do so by recognising good questions through giving them the spotlight.

    3. In-depth detailed article a la "Death of a Spaceman" every 3 - 6 months.
  • Icould-Spacemaster

    Posts: 2356

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    V66aDLV66aDLMY OPINION IS MY OWN, AND SMILEY FACES ABSOLVE ME OF ALL RESULTING NEGATIVE RAMIFICATIONS :)
  • Terraphon

    Posts: 251

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    Yeah...this exactly.
    Sons Of Odin
  • Saintdenis

    Posts: 57

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    I think what many consider lacking is not "update" per se, but proof that development is moving forward at a nice pace.

    My suggestion:

    1. Monthly General Progress Report
    Shows how much work CIG have done.

    As previously suggested, it provides an overall view of how various tasks/modules are being developed; are they moving at the rate CIG wished; difficulties CIG encountered and how CIG fixed/plan to fix them, etc. The report doesn't need to give a progress %, nor pic/vid, just a plain "boring" text doc is more than enough to assure the community that work is being done.

    Eg. "DFM network coding is moving smoothly, internal test may start next month."
    "Freelancer variants have been decided, models are being created, one of them is close to finish and 2 more are half way through. We will confirm Constellation variants' role next month. Aurora's PBR is taking more time than expected."

    2. Consolidated Ask-a-Developer Commlink every two weeks
    Gathers 10 or 20 interesting/informative/important Q&A and repost them in commlink. In addition, transcripts of 104TC should also be included in this document.

    There are good reasons to do this:
    a, facilitates information flow around the community; very few people check every Ask-a-Developer thread, however everyone checks commlink. IMHO the frontpage is criminally underused as a tool of communicating with the community.

    b, provides an example of good question; if you want people to ask good, meaningful questions, you first need to show them what a good, meaningful question looks like, and then incentivise them to do so by recognising good questions through giving them the spotlight.

    3. In-depth detailed article a la "Death of a Spaceman" every 3 - 6 months.

    These are great suggestions. Would be great to see more posts like this one in this thread, because honestly I'm tired skipping over all these "stop whining" - posts. Even if those are presented in a non-aggressive way (but unfortunatly they usually are), they make it really hard to read this thread and they distort its purpose.
  • Duchess_SA01

    Posts: 632

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    +1

    I heard recently that CIG is going to be offering all forum members a nice hot glass of STFU, free refills.

    We're not there yet and when we are, we'll be the first to know it.
    Until then, it's not a mystery... they're Fing coding/designing/drawing/building it!

    - Sterling

  • Marek

    Posts: 75

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    Because pushing less updates after requests for more updates is the right way to handle things.
    Makes sense.
    If you're 12.
  • Mechajim

    Posts: 538

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    Maybe he meant how every update just results in more complaining. Which it generally does.
  • Lone-Star

    Posts: 572

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    Guys - we have five plus posts a week on the game, we have a TV show where we tell you everything we did the previous week... and another one where the man in charge of the company directly answers your questions about the game. We have forums and chat where you can interact directly with the development team. We run polls and lore builder on the front page that let you impact the development of both the game and the universe. (And a monthly magazine about the project's development for subscribers!) I've seen so many of these posts this week, and I'm just left asking: what else can we do? And that's not an exasperated sigh, I'm genuinely interested in making sure we're doing everything we can for the community.

    It's true that a lot of aspects of the project are less sexy right now. People have their heads down building the systems we worked out last year. There will be periods where we don't have a new ship to reveal or a new level map to walk you through... but we aren't away hiding, we're still here interacting with you guys as much as we possibly can (while still building the BDSSE.)

    Hi Ben,

    CIG is putting out a lot of information out. 100% agree. Problem is, what you guys call an update isnt what the folks out here in the trenches call an update. I think you need to sit down with the community and come to some sort of common consensus about what each side calls an update cuz what we have here in the forums right now, just isn't working.

    If I may, I can clarify a little. The People want to see ships flying in space. Fighting, or doing trick turns with Newtonian physics. They dont care if its in actual simmed space or a a big empty white screen in Cryengine.

    The People want to see game mechanics. Show us what docking looks like. Show us a 30 second video of someone doing an EVA. The People (ok maybe just Gaius) want to see what happens when you ram two ships together at speed.

    The People want to see the mechanics of a character actually leaving a ship and pewpewing in space with his "layzor". The People (and God bless em) want to see tractor beam goodness, and what loading cargo in space is going to look like.

    The People do not want, and do not expect the full game in all its glory, they just want to see how some of this stuff we talk and dream about so much, is actually going to work.

    The consensus out here is, its been months and months, surely at least some of this stuff is in a state that you can show us? Tease us Ben, flirt with our ship addictions....

    The physics junkies from the awesome thrust thread want to see all manner of X's Y's and Z's....doing crazy stuntman stuff in a Hornet.

    The Banu MM fiends would kill squirrels in the park for just one single fuzzy Banu flyby. For two, you could probably name your price.

    Point is... there is a serious disconnect going on with you CIG guys thinking you are giving us all these updates, and us out here thinking you are giving us nothing worthwhile.

    Give us regular updates on modules.."The DFM is still being worked on".. thats not an update. Thats Gloss. "The DFM was looking great through initial testing but ran into some issues with ships being bounced too far off of space objects, so we are looking into that".... thats a meaty update. Give us meaty Ben. The People want their Bacon.

    Give us pretty colors. Give us sharks with frickin lasers on their heads.

    We just want to see SOMETHING...

    Then get Chris to give you a raise.

    EDIT for Ben:

    And Ben, the stuff we want to see does NOT have to be in pristine working order. Show us the wacky ship bounced off an asteroid and blew into a million pieces bug. (fictional bug for illustrative purposes) Show us the challenges you guys face. We LIKE seeing stuff in progress. If I was Eric I could do 15 minutes, easily, just on an EVA with bugs and all.

    Dress Eric up as a mechanic and give us a 3 min spot on WMH where he shows us 1 mechanic each week in all its partially done glory. Just talking about a bug and what something SHOULD do is a gold mine of information. Give us 'bug of the week'.... and like Mythbusters, slam it with a "RESOLVED" graphic when stuff gets fixed.

    The possibilities are endless, Ben, and all of it equals very happy backers.

    Thanks for listening.
    Quoted for solidarity
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  • RedGoat

    Posts: 181

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply.

    I think the problem here is differing views on the utility of Ask a Dev. It's great for asking specific questions like, I dunno, 'could you explain how the shields/armor system works' or 'how will a ship's thrusters work' etc. But because it's asking specific questions to a single individual, it isn't a format that works very well for State Of The Game addresses - how is the team progressing on the DFM, how is the ship pipeline organized, have you encountered challenges, etc. Plus, asking individuals is probably the wrong way to go about finding information about modules that might have 30 people working on them. You've even touched on another associated problem with the Ask a Dev format - we might not be asking the right question to the right person, and for updates, we'd also need to keep asking the same questions.

    Which is why I'm saying it would also be nice to have the view from the top, so to speak. The big picture. So we don't have to try and cobble together various short replies to specific questions in a hope of understanding the current status of the game's development like some sort of information jigsaw where half the pieces are missing.

    The ask a dev thread isn't about asking individuals. That's a bit of a misconception. The entire section was reworked a month ago so that many different members of each group are answering the threads. Any number of people from each team can answer the questions in the threads (right now it's only 4 or 5 in a thread but it could be much more eventually). It's not just one dev per thread any more. There's some exceptions, in that Martin Galway is so far the only guy answering audio questions, and Dave Haddock is answering lore questions, for example.

    I agree It isn't a platform for a broader "state of the game" type broad-picture releases, but it's definitely a place you can ask each team about challenges they've had. Honestly nobody has even bothered trying in favor of asking about their wish-list features they would like to see in game. Asking about the ship pipeline organization is definitely the kind of info the programmers and producers could also answer. It's an underutilized section of the forums, that is often filled with the wrong kind of fluff questions, or misused as an outlet to complain about features and concept art they actually *did* release.

    The whole reason I brought it up wasn't to say that we couldn't have such broader updates but that there is another outlet for info in which appropriate queries could be directed. And as mentioned before, perhaps a clearer list of what each teams tasks are and what kinds of questions to ask at the header of each thread would help out a lot... that's probably a good start.
    Just chiming in in this thread to give some feedback on this particular point, because I've expressed my opinion on the general matter in other instances and ultimately there are already people who say what I would say better than me.
    I believe the issue with the ask a dev section is that due to its original conception (with a thread for every dev) it quickly became too unreliable, with devs clearly unable to dedicate "at least an hour a week" to answer questions. By all means, I don't think this happened maliciously, but it's the reality of things. I do agree that the reformatting of the section was a big step in clarity of communication and to be a valuable information tool, but by the time it happened people were already wary of posting questions and simply didn't bother any more. So essentially it needs time now to catch up, if it is at all possible to revert the trend. It probably should have been publicized more, but even now I think it should be good to remind people every now and then of its existence and usefulness - maybe a weekly recap of the section, with the most juicy dev posts grouped in a comm link, would be enough to satisfy many people here.
    (Not me, I'm in the "I'd like to see the actual progress even if it's boring, please" bandwagon :p)
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  • Duchess_SA01

    Posts: 632

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    Because pushing less updates after requests for more updates is the right way to handle things.
    Makes sense.
    If you're 12.
    And giving multiple teams full of professional game designers and developers a shit-ton of grief for providing plenty of extra content and summit design meeting footage, all during the first 30 day period immediately following the holidays and an announcement saying they'd need 2-3 months to complete the DFM work is... "the right way to handle things"?

    That also makes sense, for the impatient, ignorant of the game design process and entitled.

    Ron and Rob's interviews in the last Wingman's Hangar had plenty of information about the important discussions they're having to nail down the concrete and repeatable design goals for the game moving forward.

    When game mechanics that are decided on are still in-work and/or being debated to make sure they'll work in-game the way intended or to create the right experience for the gamer when combined with all the other game mechanics... is not the right time to release information to the masses.
    Once a course of action is decided upon, which many have been, you do the work and finish it and then show the people.

    We already know what they're building, they've told us in the wingman's hangar episodes from the design stages where they answer questions and explain what they were shooting for and also plenty of dev forum threads where they answer design questions. When they get the in-work game-mechanics finalized enough to actually show us, they will.

    - Sterling
  • RevisionistHistory

    Posts: 91

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    If I were CIG, the continual complaining from this community would want me to not give us updates. I hope CIG stays on their course, and does not bend to the will of this mob--it doesn't deserve extra attention.

    Because pushing less updates after requests for more updates is the right way to handle things.
    Makes sense.
    If you're 12.
    And giving multiple teams full of professional game designers and developers a shit-ton of grief for providing plenty of extra content and summit design meeting footage, all during the first 30 day period immediately following the holidays and an announcement saying they'd need 2-3 months to complete the DFM work is... "the right way to handle things"?

    That also makes sense, for the impatient, ignorant of the game design process and entitled.



    - Sterling
    Nope. What 'plenty of extra content' exactly are you talking about?

    What do you know about the planetside module that we saw early video of last year? What have we seen of any updates 'substantial - not another fish' on the hangar module? What is the status of ships that were designed over a year ago that aren't even close to be finished (or shown in the case of the cap ships).

    We wouldn't be asking these questions if they would just give us a quick update to real questions we're asking instead of fluff and nonsense softballs that are pitched to WH and 10FTC.
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  • Telcontar

    Posts: 101

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    And here we see the flaw in the "need moar" crowd... Everyone wants to hear something different. How could CIG possibly satisfy it all?

    Let them share at their best judgement and be content.
  • Ting

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    And here we see the flaw in the "need moar" crowd... Everyone wants to hear something different. How could CIG possibly satisfy it all?

    Let them share at their best judgement and be content.

    Reading though these post, the common denominator seems that people just want to see regular, but small updates on what the good people at CIG have been working on lately or which decisions have been made (be is on ships, code, features, whatever...)

    I don't see a lot of unreasonable requests like "give me module xyz NOW", or "give us a final release date"...
  • Telcontar

    Posts: 101

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    No matter what they might release it wouldn't be enough. I don't care that someone says "just give us a screenshot", there will be 10 people who shout why they didn't release 3 screenshots.
    This is a never ending fight. That is why we just need to be patient.
    The ONLY thing CIG owes us is the game, NOTHING else.
  • Lone-Star

    Posts: 572

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    No matter what they might release it wouldn't be enough. I don't care that someone says "just give us a screenshot", there will be 10 people who shout why they didn't release 3 screenshots.
    This is a never ending fight. That is why we just need to be patient.
    The ONLY thing CIG owes us is the game, NOTHING else.

    We don't owe them ANYTHING at all, something is better than nothing.
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  • Telcontar

    Posts: 101

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    I don't get your point.
  • croberts68

    Developer

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    I'm proud of the frequency and amount of information we share.

    I've backed a good number of other crowd funded projects, including pretty much all the high profile ones and I would challenge anyone to show me one that gives a more steady stream of updates and visual updates than Star Citizen does once the initial crowd funding phase is over. I would say Elite:Dangerous and Limit Theory are probably the best of the ones that I've backed as they have monthly updates that include video for LT and in conceptual imagery and occasional video for Elite. Behind this would probably be Broken Age, knocked only because the videos were't always monthly, but they were probably the most polished. But no one is close to us in terms of video (Over 200!), updates (at least 5-8 a week on RSI), conceptual art (we usually share at least 2-3 images per week and then there's a whole bunch more for subscribers in the Vault and Jump Point) or interaction with the community.

    I get it that most people are so excited for the game that even at this quantity it is not enough information on Star Citizen. Based on the forum and organization activity, even if we were a 24/7 operation in terms of sharing information with the community it would probably still not be enough!

    This is a high class problem to have :-)

    One thing that I would like people to remember is that authoring the updates for the community is not trivial. We have some members of our staff, like Ben, Michael Morlan and David Ladyman that this is their main focus and responsibility. But anytime we do a behind the scene (BTS) piece, craft a lore / design post for the website or have a developer answer questions on a forum it is a commitment of someone's time that is important for the development of the game.

    I know it's easy for people to off handily throw out that it should only take a few minutes to update the community as we're sharing existing work but if you ask yourself honestly you will realize that's being unfair. To put it in context if you ever had to prepare a report for school, or a presentation for your boss and wanted to impress would you only spend a few minutes on it?

    Typically it will take between 1 and 1/2 day of a developers time to shoot a BTS piece and doesn't include the preparation of the assets to show which can take days (this isn't counting the time that someone like Michael Morlan has to put in editing and handling post after the raw material has been shot). Putting together a post with some pictures isn't quite as involved but can easily be half a day depending on the complexity. David Haddock doesn't write his posts in an hour and even an update with pictures or a poll can take hours once you factor in rounding up the art, formatting and getting sign off. Answering questions on a forum will take hours. I spent about two hours reading this current thread and will have probably invested about an hour in crafting this post.

    Having said all this I think you all should know we are committed to upping the game in terms of the quality of information shared this year. One of my edicts for 2014 was to have more actual information and BTS material for both our video content and our website. We're actively looking to hire up a few more people for the community communication side and one of the meetings we had at last week's summit was a BTS planning session where every studio working on the game mapped out various things they thought would be cool to share and when they could share them. We decided to move the format of Wingman's Hangar to be built round this - where we show a BTS piece as the center piece and then have hard questions from the forum themed to the BTS subject matter and also have an interview with one or more of the developers working on the feature. It just started and its got a way to go before its running well (does anyone remember the very first episode of WMH - that was pretty rough!) and it wasn't helped that the first feature was the Production Summit, which just ins't sexy or visually interesting (its why you'll never see a show on TV called "The Scheduler"!)

    Between employees and contractors we have about 170 people working on the project presently and we're going full steam ahead on all aspects - Space, Planetside, FPS Combat / Boarding, Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe (which includes all the backend). We have over 10 conceptual artists working on fleshing out the visual look of the universe. There will be lots of content that will be coming down the pike. I don't believe there is a another crowd funded game, or even another PC game that will be able to compete with us in terms of content generation and ambition (thanks to all your generous support), so there will be plenty of stuff to see - just be patient. Development isn't always linear - sometimes you'll have a lot of stuff to show all at once and sometimes there will be a scarcity as you're working on areas that aren't so visual (backend server work which is a major focus right now falls into this category) or you're still developing a look and are not ready to show it publicly. But don't worry that we are deliberately holding stuff back - we're proud and excited by the work we're doing and keen to share it with you as soon as possible.

    There will be a 10 for the Chairman on Monday then a WMH with something a little more visual on Wednesday and the final round of the audition finals for TNGS on Friday. There is a lot of pretty amazing stuff in the hopper and I think as we ramp up the team to help us share our progress and the new formats settle in, I'm hoping you'll be happier.

    I'm not fooling myself though. I know it still wont be enough :-)
  • Telcontar

    Posts: 101

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    Chris you and your team are doing a fantastic job. Don't let the nagging get to you. Even the naggers love the game. ;)
  • walltar

    Posts: 5618

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    Wall of text as allways ... great one at that.
    It if there is one phrase to take out of it it would be:

    just be patient

    So let's be patient ... they are doing what they can.
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  • Mosern

    Posts: 666

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    Spot on Chris. It will never be enough, cause people just want to play the game of their dreams already.
  • Mischief

    Posts: 1130

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    Wow, a lot more responses here than I'd have expected.

    I have no issue what so ever with the communication that's going on, quite the contrary I think it's phenomenal. Never been any part of a game that had this much interaction with the players (or at this point backers) as SC/S42 has.

    People are excited and they want the game. They know the game isn't done yet so they want.... something. Something that feels like the game or that they can dream about while waiting for the game.

    First world problems.

    We're getting tons of content and updates and the original idea, a single player game nested in a multiplayer sort of arena has turned into a massive MMO with FPS, space, planetside and boarding combat, zero G physics, etc. etc. etc. We're getting ten times the content in the same timeframe because, well, we've coughed up ten times the money.

    Thank you again for the updates Ben and Chris. Your contributions to these sorts of discussions were not expected, a lot of it is just us rabble shouting 'rabble rabble rabble' at each other because, well, we want our pretty ships. Your willingness to jump in and share like this though is greatly appreciated and serves as a regular reminder that you do listen, even if what we're saying is maybe a bit silly.

    Much appreciated.
  • Silent_Ruin

    Posts: 720

    Posted:
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    Posted:
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    Thrum... Thrum... pa-da-bing... Thrum... Thrum... Thrum... ;)

    Mod Boraxx Edit: In reference to the forum rules: https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/86002/forum-rules-moderator-responsibilities-updated

    Kindly post content that contributes, don't spam a thread for the sake of posting

    ?
    First Day of the 'verse I expect to hear the keening lament from many escape
    pods as they realize that NPC skills are not all set to "stupid".

    - SilentRuin
  • Lysan

    Posts: 1972

    Posted:
    Posted:
    CR thank you, but most of us understand that this take time and we can wait. We are not white knights, we just know that a project of this magnitude take time and if you answer forum requests you can't do whatever you supposed to do.

    You're doing great until now, keep up the good work and release the infer when you can, I am here everyday event though I know that updates will be slow until april or so.

    We ALL want this game to be the DBSSE so please keep focus and get back to work :)
  • vectorplotter

    Posts: 2009

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    Posted:
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    I'm proud of the frequency and amount of information we share.

    I've backed a good number of other crowd funded projects, including pretty much all the high profile ones and I would challenge anyone to show me one that gives a more steady stream of updates and visual updates than Star Citizen does once the initial crowd funding phase is over. I would say Elite:Dangerous and Limit Theory are probably the best of the ones that I've backed as they have monthly updates that include video for LT and in conceptual imagery and occasional video for Elite. Behind this would probably be Broken Age, knocked only because the videos were't always monthly, but they were probably the most polished. But no one is close to us in terms of video (Over 200!), updates (at least 5-8 a week on RSI), conceptual art (we usually share at least 2-3 images per week and then there's a whole bunch more for subscribers in the Vault and Jump Point) or interaction with the community.

    I get it that most people are so excited for the game that even at this quantity it is not enough information on Star Citizen. Based on the forum and organization activity, even if we were a 24/7 operation in terms of sharing information with the community it would probably still not be enough!

    This is a high class problem to have :-)

    One thing that I would like people to remember is that authoring the updates for the community is not trivial. We have some members of our staff, like Ben, Michael Morlan and David Ladyman that this is their main focus and responsibility. But anytime we do a behind the scene (BTS) piece, craft a lore / design post for the website or have a developer answer questions on a forum it is a commitment of someone's time that is important for the development of the game.

    I know it's easy for people to off handily throw out that it should only take a few minutes to update the community as we're sharing existing work but if you ask yourself honestly you will realize that's being unfair. To put it in context if you ever had to prepare a report for school, or a presentation for your boss and wanted to impress would you only spend a few minutes on it?

    Typically it will take between 1 and 1/2 day of a developers time to shoot a BTS piece and doesn't include the preparation of the assets to show which can take days (this isn't counting the time that someone like Michael Morlan has to put in editing and handling post after the raw material has been shot). Putting together a post with some pictures isn't quite as involved but can easily be half a day depending on the complexity. David Haddock doesn't write his posts in an hour and even an update with pictures or a poll can take hours once you factor in rounding up the art, formatting and getting sign off. Answering questions on a forum will take hours. I spent about two hours reading this current thread and will have probably invested about an hour in crafting this post.

    Having said all this I think you all should know we are committed to upping the game in terms of the quality of information shared this year. One of my edicts for 2014 was to have more actual information and BTS material for both our video content and our website. We're actively looking to hire up a few more people for the community communication side and one of the meetings we had at last week's summit was a BTS planning session where every studio working on the game mapped out various things they thought would be cool to share and when they could share them. We decided to move the format of Wingman's Hangar to be built round this - where we show a BTS piece as the center piece and then have hard questions from the forum themed to the BTS subject matter and also have an interview with one or more of the developers working on the feature. It just started and its got a way to go before its running well (does anyone remember the very first episode of WMH - that was pretty rough!) and it wasn't helped that the first feature was the Production Summit, which just ins't sexy or visually interesting (its why you'll never see a show on TV called "The Scheduler"!)

    Between employees and contractors we have about 170 people working on the project presently and we're going full steam ahead on all aspects - Space, Planetside, FPS Combat / Boarding, Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe (which includes all the backend). We have over 10 conceptual artists working on fleshing out the visual look of the universe. There will be lots of content that will be coming down the pike. I don't believe there is a another crowd funded game, or even another PC game that will be able to compete with us in terms of content generation and ambition (thanks to all your generous support), so there will be plenty of stuff to see - just be patient. Development isn't always linear - sometimes you'll have a lot of stuff to show all at once and sometimes there will be a scarcity as you're working on areas that aren't so visual (backend server work which is a major focus right now falls into this category) or you're still developing a look and are not ready to show it publicly. But don't worry that we are deliberately holding stuff back - we're proud and excited by the work we're doing and keen to share it with you as soon as possible.

    There will be a 10 for the Chairman on Monday then a WMH with something a little more visual on Wednesday and the final round of the audition finals for TNGS on Friday. There is a lot of pretty amazing stuff in the hopper and I think as we ramp up the team to help us share our progress and the new formats settle in, I'm hoping you'll be happier.

    I'm not fooling myself though. I know it still wont be enough :-)

    Hello Chris,

    All I would like to say is that in this one post that you have taken an hour to craft, you have actually given us a massive amount of information. Actually more real info than we have gotten so far this year. There was more about the summit in that post than in WMH, we now know what happened to 10 for the Chairman and the list goes on.

    Speaking for myself, that is exactly what I was hoping for, the only thing that was missing was a simple yes we are on track for our beta release timeline statement.

    Thank you for your time.

    Crescit cum commercio civitas.
    enablers-forum-banner.jpg
  • Sheneria

    Posts: 255

    Posted:
    Edited:
    Posted:
    Edited:

    I'm proud of the frequency and amount of information we share.

    I've backed a good number of other crowd funded projects, including pretty much all the high profile ones and I would challenge anyone to show me one that gives a more steady stream of updates and visual updates than Star Citizen does once the initial crowd funding phase is over. I would say Elite:Dangerous and Limit Theory are probably the best of the ones that I've backed as they have monthly updates that include video for LT and in conceptual imagery and occasional video for Elite. Behind this would probably be Broken Age, knocked only because the videos were't always monthly, but they were probably the most polished. But no one is close to us in terms of video (Over 200!), updates (at least 5-8 a week on RSI), conceptual art (we usually share at least 2-3 images per week and then there's a whole bunch more for subscribers in the Vault and Jump Point) or interaction with the community.

    I get it that most people are so excited for the game that even at this quantity it is not enough information on Star Citizen. Based on the forum and organization activity, even if we were a 24/7 operation in terms of sharing information with the community it would probably still not be enough!

    This is a high class problem to have :-)

    One thing that I would like people to remember is that authoring the updates for the community is not trivial. We have some members of our staff, like Ben, Michael Morlan and David Ladyman that this is their main focus and responsibility. But anytime we do a behind the scene (BTS) piece, craft a lore / design post for the website or have a developer answer questions on a forum it is a commitment of someone's time that is important for the development of the game.

    I know it's easy for people to off handily throw out that it should only take a few minutes to update the community as we're sharing existing work but if you ask yourself honestly you will realize that's being unfair. To put it in context if you ever had to prepare a report for school, or a presentation for your boss and wanted to impress would you only spend a few minutes on it?

    Typically it will take between 1 and 1/2 day of a developers time to shoot a BTS piece and doesn't include the preparation of the assets to show which can take days (this isn't counting the time that someone like Michael Morlan has to put in editing and handling post after the raw material has been shot). Putting together a post with some pictures isn't quite as involved but can easily be half a day depending on the complexity. David Haddock doesn't write his posts in an hour and even an update with pictures or a poll can take hours once you factor in rounding up the art, formatting and getting sign off. Answering questions on a forum will take hours. I spent about two hours reading this current thread and will have probably invested about an hour in crafting this post.

    Having said all this I think you all should know we are committed to upping the game in terms of the quality of information shared this year. One of my edicts for 2014 was to have more actual information and BTS material for both our video content and our website. We're actively looking to hire up a few more people for the community communication side and one of the meetings we had at last week's summit was a BTS planning session where every studio working on the game mapped out various things they thought would be cool to share and when they could share them. We decided to move the format of Wingman's Hangar to be built round this - where we show a BTS piece as the center piece and then have hard questions from the forum themed to the BTS subject matter and also have an interview with one or more of the developers working on the feature. It just started and its got a way to go before its running well (does anyone remember the very first episode of WMH - that was pretty rough!) and it wasn't helped that the first feature was the Production Summit, which just ins't sexy or visually interesting (its why you'll never see a show on TV called "The Scheduler"!)

    Between employees and contractors we have about 170 people working on the project presently and we're going full steam ahead on all aspects - Space, Planetside, FPS Combat / Boarding, Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe (which includes all the backend). We have over 10 conceptual artists working on fleshing out the visual look of the universe. There will be lots of content that will be coming down the pike. I don't believe there is a another crowd funded game, or even another PC game that will be able to compete with us in terms of content generation and ambition (thanks to all your generous support), so there will be plenty of stuff to see - just be patient. Development isn't always linear - sometimes you'll have a lot of stuff to show all at once and sometimes there will be a scarcity as you're working on areas that aren't so visual (backend server work which is a major focus right now falls into this category) or you're still developing a look and are not ready to show it publicly. But don't worry that we are deliberately holding stuff back - we're proud and excited by the work we're doing and keen to share it with you as soon as possible.

    There will be a 10 for the Chairman on Monday then a WMH with something a little more visual on Wednesday and the final round of the audition finals for TNGS on Friday. There is a lot of pretty amazing stuff in the hopper and I think as we ramp up the team to help us share our progress and the new formats settle in, I'm hoping you'll be happier.

    I'm not fooling myself though. I know it still wont be enough :-)

    Thats a decent post, but 1-2 months too late.

    Lets hope we really see some change in information quality next week.

  • Scorpio_Shirica

    Posts: 1730

    Posted:
    Posted:

    CR thank you, but most of us understand that this take time and we can wait. We are not white knights, we just know that a project of this magnitude take time and if you answer forum requests you can't do whatever you supposed to do.

    You're doing great until now, keep up the good work and release the infer when you can, I am here everyday event though I know that updates will be slow until april or so.

    We ALL want this game to be the DBSSE so please keep focus and get back to work :)

    +1
    Scorpio_Shirica_Signature.png
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