LTI/Insurance void in NULL SEC areas? Free Hangar for everyone?

  • Ravenor

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    thanks rob!
    Death to the traitor!
  • Glabro

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    Thanks a lot for an excellent clarification, Rob!
    Could you please clarify, whether my assumption regarding the issue with insured ships' hull being returned in the condition that they were last docked is correct or not and if not how it's planned to work? Thank you.

    How I think it will or should work:

    I believe, that we will (or rather should) be able to always repair the hull to the maximum condition when it was new. Repairing hull is no rocket science (pun intended) - you just patch holes in armor (possibly by replacing entire segments of it), fix avionics, wiring and thrusters and you're good. It can cost a lot of money (in case of critical hull damage when you're missing half of your ship) but it's still doable. Therefore after our INSURED (either with LTI or SHI) ship gets destroyed after time X (depending on other factors) we will receive a ship's hull with its basic guns and modules in the condition it was in when we left the dock - be that fully repaired or not.

    On the contrary, very complicated sub-systems like guns or modules, cannot be fixed to the full condition (like new) by your standard dock mechanic or repair bot as they lack the necessary parts and skills to do it. It would be logical and is my suggestion, though, that even these complicated parts could be brought back to "like new" condition in specific places like i.e. hi-tech depots or factories that produce those parts - for a fee, of course.
  • Lastof

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    Sorry Lastof but you made me laugh :)

    It's pretty clear were you've got insurance coverage and where not for cargo and components. What you are asking is for specifics to be done and that we'll know when ready, but at this point is unimportant. However you can make a good guess about probable no coverage systems; for example, all vanduul space will be no coverage space for sure, probably all lawless space too, high chances for Xi'An space to be no coverage too. If you want names I can give you some. Cathcart, Orion, Taranis, Caliban, Vendetta, Null,...

    Salu2 :)

    But that is my point. You are making a guess, which you have decided is "good" based on no facts we have. We have no actual information on those details, CIG might not have even decided yet. People making statements like "So this would force players to either strip down to bear bone ships and carry minimal cargo - Or fly around in maxed out ships with fleet support" are making an assumption that we have very little proof to support. We have no evidence to what makes a area "risk level 5", or better, or worse, so any assumptions made are little better than completely guesses. For all we know Cathcart might only be level 5 risk, substantially raising the cost of your insurance, but maybe the time saved using it as a shortcut makes some traders willing to pay that price, and risk that trouble.

    Wild conjecture of "no one worth attacking will go to none UEE systems, because insurance doesn't cover them" is useless, and many people here read it as facts and make the echo chamber full of even worse speculation.
    Lastof - Member of the Loose Alliance of Mercenaries and Privateers
  • Kenryuu

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    I find the return of ships in the condition they were last docked a bit immersion breaking.

    The insurance company should charge a retrieval fee equivalent to the cost of repairing the ship to brand new state relative to the last docked condition as the main option (to be picked up at a core sector dealership somewhere), or offer the player a used ship in roughly the last docked condition as an alternative (to be picked up at a random location near/in a core sector to simulate its used state).

    The "new ship" option will obviously not be available for Vanduul ships since they are not sold openly. Ships should also NOT automagically appear in the player's hangar. A claims chit should be issued via mobiglas to be taken to a designated dealer to effect the claim. Market conditions affecting wait times and availability should thus apply.
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  • Jack_Nova

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    It is and is used as a selling point and incentive in packages. The OB/Vets have used it to exclude others and it is their attitude and the gimmie gimmie you owe me that is the issue.Until it is removed as an incentive from the package it will remain a contentious issue.
    The toxic attitude is causing harm. and you are right the game doesnt need any more money and any reason to pledge should be removed.

    Apparently CR has said that LTI is earnable in game too, so in theory it is available to everyone, but requiring some in game effort.
    (I'm quoting what someone else said though)
    If this turns out to be true, all the "them and us" business can stop because it will mean everything is available to everyone in game (even Scythe owners!)
  • Ciudadano_Uno

    Posts: 1066

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    Sorry Lastof but you made me laugh :)

    It's pretty clear were you've got insurance coverage and where not for cargo and components. What you are asking is for specifics to be done and that we'll know when ready, but at this point is unimportant. However you can make a good guess about probable no coverage systems; for example, all vanduul space will be no coverage space for sure, probably all lawless space too, high chances for Xi'An space to be no coverage too. If you want names I can give you some. Cathcart, Orion, Taranis, Caliban, Vendetta, Null,...

    Salu2 :)

    But that is my point. You are making a guess, which you have decided is "good" based on no facts we have. We have no actual information on those details, CIG might not have even decided yet. People making statements like "So this would force players to either strip down to bear bone ships and carry minimal cargo - Or fly around in maxed out ships with fleet support" are making an assumption that we have very little proof to support. We have no evidence to what makes a area "risk level 5", or better, or worse, so any assumptions made are little better than completely guesses. For all we know Cathcart might only be level 5 risk, substantially raising the cost of your insurance, but maybe the time saved using it as a shortcut makes some traders willing to pay that price, and risk that trouble.

    Wild conjecture of "no one worth attacking will go to none UEE systems, because insurance doesn't cover them" is useless, and many people here read it as facts and make the echo chamber full of even worse speculation.
    Hell! at this point you can say the same about almost everything. The forum is filled of wild guesses.
    As I said, what you ask for, or you critized, is unimportant right now. All we need to know is that there are going to be no coverage systems and that based on our insurance level we will, or we won't, have coverage for our modules and cargo anywhere else.

    Salu2 :)

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  • Azaral

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    Yup and all I am doing is suggesting that I don't think there should be area's that don't have coverage - With the possible exception of extreme situations due to environmental conditions present within a system - whereby the insurance company may place a requirement for you to have certain equipment equipped in order to be insured? I.e you are about to enter a system that contains a class 5 star - your insurance will not cover damages to your modules and cargo unless you equip a class 5 shield system to protect from harmful radiation emissions. Entering this system with less than a class 5 shield may result in damage to your cargo or modules through exposure to radiation etc.
  • Glabro

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    Yup and all I am doing is suggesting that I don't think there should be area's that don't have coverage - With the possible exception of extreme situations due to environmental conditions present within a system - whereby the insurance company may place a requirement for you to have certain equipment equipped in order to be insured?

    No. No exceptions. KISS principle.
  • Ignis_Vulpes

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    Thanks for clarifying Rob, just more proof that y'all are here and do pay attention to the forums and fans :P.

    Keep up the good work!
    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths."

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  • Oramac

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    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    A simple follow up, if I may.

    Clearly, we can't replace the modified parts. Will we be able save our settings for the parts? Outside of writing them down on a sheet of paper, obviously.
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  • Mongoose

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    I could have sworn the devs already stated that Hull insurance (standard or LTI) will be in effect in null-sec areas / lawless space / etc.

    That the only difference between standard hull and lti-hull is that LTI is not paying a nominal fee every month or whatever.

    And that going into lawless space will merely mean your weapon/gear and cargo insurance will not work. So you can't insure those awesome guns + shields before going into lawless space: if you blow up there then that kit is gone.

    This, a thousand times this. They have said it, you can't lose your hull if it is insured with LTI or regular hull insurance.
    No, there are some areas where Hull insurance is void as well. Corin being one of them. Become a subscriber to find out more.
    Thats nice that subscribers are privy to information that should really be public I would think.

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  • Puls0nic

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    All subscriber information will be made public as time passes. Don't worry about it.
  • Mongoose

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    All subscriber information will be made public as time passes. Don't worry about it.

    My point is its hard to have a discussion when one side has information that others arent privy to. Would be like arguing game design with chris roberts or his crew. In other words dont start discussions if a big portion of your argument is covered under subscriber only info.
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  • Coal_Morgan

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    I could have sworn the devs already stated that Hull insurance (standard or LTI) will be in effect in null-sec areas / lawless space / etc.

    That the only difference between standard hull and lti-hull is that LTI is not paying a nominal fee every month or whatever.

    And that going into lawless space will merely mean your weapon/gear and cargo insurance will not work. So you can't insure those awesome guns + shields before going into lawless space: if you blow up there then that kit is gone.

    This, a thousand times this. They have said it, you can't lose your hull if it is insured with LTI or regular hull insurance.
    No, there are some areas where Hull insurance is void as well. Corin being one of them. Become a subscriber to find out more.
    Thats nice that subscribers are privy to information that should really be public I would think.

    It wasn't really information, it was a piece of flavour text on a story. All the relevant information was public and people kept pointing at it and ignoring the big design post on how LTI worked. That was actually posted months ago.
  • Mongoose

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    I could have sworn the devs already stated that Hull insurance (standard or LTI) will be in effect in null-sec areas / lawless space / etc.

    That the only difference between standard hull and lti-hull is that LTI is not paying a nominal fee every month or whatever.

    And that going into lawless space will merely mean your weapon/gear and cargo insurance will not work. So you can't insure those awesome guns + shields before going into lawless space: if you blow up there then that kit is gone.

    This, a thousand times this. They have said it, you can't lose your hull if it is insured with LTI or regular hull insurance.
    No, there are some areas where Hull insurance is void as well. Corin being one of them. Become a subscriber to find out more.
    Thats nice that subscribers are privy to information that should really be public I would think.

    It wasn't really information, it was a piece of flavour text on a story. All the relevant information was public and people kept pointing at it and ignoring the big design post on how LTI worked. That was actually posted months ago.

    Yeah I understand the information on LTI I was just curious why people, not you would bring something in that is not widely known. Either way I dont see myself worrying too much about what these people are saying. Until CR posts something other than what he already did I am going to ignore it.
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  • IamMaestro

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    So am I reading this right? Rob very kindly steps in and reiterates what most people already tried very hard to explain (thanks Rob!) and the very next few posts pick up on another FEW WORDS in his response (condition last docked) and start another argument about how this is game breaking, immersion breaking, unacceptable blah blah seriously go and get a job or at least some cocoa.

    What is wrong with some of you people? I've frequented many forums over the last decade or so, in all sorts of subject areas and with communities from all walks of life. I have never before come across a core of forum users with such a sense of self entitlement, self importance and a willingness to demand things to which they are not entitled as I have seen in literally just the last few weeks on here. This forum was a refreshing place for so long with everyone pulling in the same direction; excited about the same things and yet something has happened and I cannot put my finger on it but seriously: this place has gone to shit recently and it's the same core of people, none of whom I shall name, who jump at the slightest deviation from their own preconceptions and start ranting.

    Who knows, maybe a bunch of spoilt rich kids got in on the 24hr thingy with Daddy's credit card? I really don't know but it's very frustrating.

    Just peace out everyone and next time you get an inkling of something you're not sure about .... ASK. Then wait for an answer. Don't assume and argue against your assumptions. :-)

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  • Kaedan

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    One point of contention I have is that upgrades and cargo are not currently planned to be insurable in nul sec areas. So this would force players to either strip down to bear bone ships and carry minimal cargo - Or fly around in maxed out ships with fleet support. My preference would be for upgrade and cargo insurance to be simply much more expensive in nul sec areas. As a pirate I don't want to see players deterred from carrying cargo or flying around with no upgrades - Or run into hardcore guilds that would take advantage of this. I would just like reconsideration to be given to simply making insurance more expensive in nul sec rather than providing no insurance at all as I can perceive the end result.

    If there's a market for goods in lawless space, then there WILL be traders going there with full cargo holds. That's the nature of greed, my friend. The driving force of capitalism. And it will be even better because those haulers will hire/bring escorts precisely due to the fact that their stuff can't be insured... which means plenty of good ol' PvP.
  • Mongoose

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    The "in the condition that they were last docked." is interesting. I dont exactly know what it means but it can mean a few different things. Either way all will be cleared up I am sure in time.
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  • RamR

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    man i love this game more and more, devs are awesome, game is awesome, its just awesomeness everywhere.
  • Riot

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    I believe it has been cleared up multiple times in the past. My apologies for not finding the source yet, but "in the condition that they were last docked" means you don't get out of having to pay for repairs to your ship just by going out and getting it blown up.

    You can't get past maintenance and repair fees in the game by using insurance to get a new ship. You will get the hull back in the condition it was in, so that you then have to turn around and pay for repairs.
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  • Kaedan

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    The "in the condition that they were last docked." is interesting. I dont exactly know what it means but it can mean a few different things. Either way all will be cleared up I am sure in time.


    It means they're not letting people cheat the system by getting their initial ship, selling off every part it has, purposefully blowing it up, and then getting a new ship with all the stuff it had and repeating the process ad nauseum to essentially cheat money. And similarly, they don't want you to be in heavy need of repairs and then just blow up your ship purposefully to get a brand new ship in perfect condition. If it's at 10% condition when you blow up, you get a 10% condition ship back. They don't want people to cheat repairs either.
  • SandmanZERO

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    Just peace out everyone and next time you get an inkling of something you're not sure about .... ASK. Then wait for an answer. Don't assume and argue against your assumptions. :-)

    Some people just want to watch the world burn...even if it is virtual.

    I believe that most people seem to think that donating a dollar to the cause gives them a voice beyond reason. I cannot find the part where any member of the CIG team states they are obligated to appease everyone who donated to the cause. They have been listening and responding, but the reality is that complaining about some aspect of the game that has been discussed to death is not going to change the outcome to a degree that is going to make EVERYONE happy. The entertainment comes from both sides: a faction that argues miniscule points of no concerns and a faction that goes out of their way to "correct" these people.

    At this point, when a good, clarified answer has been officially posts (as Rob as done), the forum moderators should just link to those points and close the repetitive and troll-like forums that pop up in response to small comments, like the condition last docked (which sounds like you aren't getting a brand new ship anytime soon if you docked a clunker before you ran full speed into the Bermuda Triangle...might take a long, long, long while.)

    Just chill and wait for a logical answer? Sounds good to me.
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  • Mongoose

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    The "in the condition that they were last docked." is interesting. I dont exactly know what it means but it can mean a few different things. Either way all will be cleared up I am sure in time.


    It means they're not letting people cheat the system by getting their initial ship, selling off every part it has, purposefully blowing it up, and then getting a new ship with all the stuff it had and repeating the process ad nauseum to essentially cheat money. And similarly, they don't want you to be in heavy need of repairs and then just blow up your ship purposefully to get a brand new ship in perfect condition. If it's at 10% condition when you blow up, you get a 10% condition ship back. They don't want people to cheat repairs either.
    Understandable. I wonder if your starter equipment is tagged with a special ID number. Once you have sold it once any other attempts to sell a replaced component would not net you any money you would just be scrapping them out. I also think that doing what you described would be insurance fraud and would not be covered anyway right?
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  • Riot

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    Insurance fraud was purposefully trying to cheat the system in real life. Perfect example is allowing someone to steal your ships in order to 'dupe' them, then putting in a clam. Being stupid, a poor pilot, or running headlong into a laser isn't fraud. And since you can't blow yourself up to get a new one, but just one in the condition it was in, no worries about committing fraud.

    Purposefully trying to game the system is fraud.
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  • Bloodbolt

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    Now that it is clear, what they must do is stop putting in the description of planets and systems sentences like:

    Insurance does not cover hull replacement for craft destroyed attempting to break past the cordon around .....

    They add nothing to gameplay, are inmersion breaking, and missleading.
    please tell me you are joking you want CIG to censor themselves just because a few people get a hissy fit over an immersive Lore-piece
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    So am I reading this right? Rob very kindly steps in and reiterates what most people already tried very hard to explain (thanks Rob!) and the very next few posts pick up on another FEW WORDS in his response (condition last docked) and start another argument about how this is game breaking, immersion breaking, unacceptable blah blah seriously go and get a job or at least some cocoa.

    What is wrong with some of you people? I've frequented many forums over the last decade or so, in all sorts of subject areas and with communities from all walks of life. I have never before come across a core of forum users with such a sense of self entitlement, self importance and a willingness to demand things to which they are not entitled as I have seen in literally just the last few weeks on here. This forum was a refreshing place for so long with everyone pulling in the same direction; excited about the same things and yet something has happened and I cannot put my finger on it but seriously: this place has gone to shit recently and it's the same core of people, none of whom I shall name, who jump at the slightest deviation from their own preconceptions and start ranting.

    Who knows, maybe a bunch of spoilt rich kids got in on the 24hr thingy with Daddy's credit card? I really don't know but it's very frustrating.

    Just peace out everyone and next time you get an inkling of something you're not sure about .... ASK. Then wait for an answer. Don't assume and argue against your assumptions. :-)

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    Hopefully now people can stop losing their minds over this.

    Somehow, I'm thinking that's just not going to happen...
    sadly i think you are right since this thread is still alive
    There will be some things in Star Citizens game design that WILL take people out of their comfort zone. Thats a good thing

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  • Mongoose

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    Now that it is clear, what they must do is stop putting in the description of planets and systems sentences like:

    Insurance does not cover hull replacement for craft destroyed attempting to break past the cordon around .....

    They add nothing to gameplay, are inmersion breaking, and missleading.
    please tell me you are joking you want CIG to censor themselves just because a few people get a hissy fit over an immersive Lore-piece
    [hide]

    So am I reading this right? Rob very kindly steps in and reiterates what most people already tried very hard to explain (thanks Rob!) and the very next few posts pick up on another FEW WORDS in his response (condition last docked) and start another argument about how this is game breaking, immersion breaking, unacceptable blah blah seriously go and get a job or at least some cocoa.

    What is wrong with some of you people? I've frequented many forums over the last decade or so, in all sorts of subject areas and with communities from all walks of life. I have never before come across a core of forum users with such a sense of self entitlement, self importance and a willingness to demand things to which they are not entitled as I have seen in literally just the last few weeks on here. This forum was a refreshing place for so long with everyone pulling in the same direction; excited about the same things and yet something has happened and I cannot put my finger on it but seriously: this place has gone to shit recently and it's the same core of people, none of whom I shall name, who jump at the slightest deviation from their own preconceptions and start ranting.

    Who knows, maybe a bunch of spoilt rich kids got in on the 24hr thingy with Daddy's credit card? I really don't know but it's very frustrating.

    Just peace out everyone and next time you get an inkling of something you're not sure about .... ASK. Then wait for an answer. Don't assume and argue against your assumptions. :-)

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    Hopefully now people can stop losing their minds over this.

    Somehow, I'm thinking that's just not going to happen...
    sadly i think you are right since this thread is still alive
    Sorry didnt know I was perpetuating something. Either way I am going to have a blast and since I am not planning on doing anything fraudulent I am not worried.
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  • HardRock

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    Yup and all I am doing is suggesting that I don't think there should be area's that don't have coverage - With the possible exception of extreme situations due to environmental conditions present within a system

    What about flying around in Vanduul or Kr'thak systems? Think about that from a lore perspective. The latter could be viewed as knowingly inciting war with the Xi'an (although my sources tell me the war could start before the game goes live). You would become public enemy number one, at the very least in Xi'an space, but I can't see you becoming the poster child for exemplary conduct in the UEE either. Who in their right mind would insure your ship in that situation? Dropping by to say "Hi!" to the Vanduul (or maybe even to trade with one of their clan's) seems like a good idea compared to that, but you're still knowingly asking for trouble. Maybe an exceptionally greedy insurance company could provide you a ludicrously expensive insurance plan for situations like that, but it shouldn't come as standard. Oh, you want insurance? Sure thing, it'll be just 100k Credits. What, you're going where?! 10 million or no deal (players with LTI could pay with more waiting time).

    It would also make sense from an economical perspective. If we don't want every rare ship and equipment to become cheap in a few months after release (huge supply and no demand), then things will need to leave the economy permanently. Uninsured space would definitely help with this, especially if these areas would be the most interesting ones with lucrative opportunities.

    EDIT: Reading Rob's post again I guess it's possible, that replacement ships will need to be manufactured first, they won't just appear out of nowhere. If so, that's great! Still, I'll leave this part of my post here, because I think that having uninsured space would make the game much more exciting.
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    The "in the condition that they were last docked." is interesting. I dont exactly know what it means but it can mean a few different things. Either way all will be cleared up I am sure in time.

    I know what you mean. At first I thought that we could change (at least some of) our load-out in space. It's much more likely however that it's done to prevent fraud like others have said. Rob's excellent post also clarifies that insurance isn't valid only for the equipment we had at the time the insurance was bought, which was also a possibility.
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  • John_Zoidberg

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    Glad you put this to bed. the argument allways seemd silly to me either it was coverd everywhere or it was that you needed to confine your LTI ships to certain areas either way id be happy and i trusted CIG to make the right call.
  • Ciudadano_Uno

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    Now that it is clear, what they must do is stop putting in the description of planets and systems sentences like:

    Insurance does not cover hull replacement for craft destroyed attempting to break past the cordon around .....

    They add nothing to gameplay, are inmersion breaking, and missleading.
    please tell me you are joking you want CIG to censor themselves just because a few people get a hissy fit over an immersive Lore-piece
    I'm not joking.

    Where is the inmersion when I enter in system X, and I get a message saying that the destruction of my ship will be not covered by insurance (in fact in the lore of one of the systems something like that is stated) and I find out that it is a fake message? Or worse, I won't get that message at all.

    Again, put in the lore things like that add nothing to the game and cause more problems than good.

    In fact we've been discussing over NOTHING for 4 days now.

    Salu2 :)
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  • Jet_Fusion

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    It's most likely been answered somewhere already. Search returned with negative results, but are the extra modules with LTI ship packs actually insured with that same LTI? From what i found sofar, it's most likely not. Once shot, modules are gone. I could have missed something and be wrong though.
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