LTI/Insurance void in NULL SEC areas? Free Hangar for everyone?

  • Black_Bulldog

    Posts: 4585

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Hopefully now people can stop losing their minds over this.
  • Nightrider

    Posts: 1805

    Posted:
    Edited: by Nightrider
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    Edited:
    Thank you Rob Irving for the detailed reply.
    Issue explained and resolved.

    btw ...
    I really enjoy your being a regular on Wingman's hanger.
    Your personality on Wingman's hanger brings giddy excitement to the show.
    kind of like Christmas morning opening gifts that are under the tree.

    Keep up the great work as people like you on the CIG developer team matter.
    TEST

    Star Citizen Referral Code: STAR-77V9-76B4
  • Bloodbolt

    Posts: 1607

    Posted:
    [hide]

    Hi, folks. A lot of contention here, so I just wanted to step in and clarify a few things, since this post has generated a lot of traffic.

    First of all, let's get one thing clear. Lifetime insurance is the same as regular hull insurance, with the added benefit that you don't have to re-up it when it expires, because it doesn't. Lifetime insurance gives you something that newer players won't have: insurance that you don't have to worry about renewing. It doesn't give you anything that they cannot get by purchasing normal policies. (Thanks to Roquen, Moses Baxter and others for pointing this out...)

    As Chris has said before, particularly on the original FAQ, hull insurance does work in any situation, even dangerous areas. As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    That being said, insurance policies (lifetime or otherwise) will not be instant "get out of jail free" cards. It takes time for ships to be replaced, particularly larger ones. So treating a ship like something special that you have worked hard for is a reasonable approach. Continued abuse of insurance coverage could very well result in longer replacement times, as the insurance company needs to verify that no abuse is taking place. (It takes much longer to get your check for running your car into a bridge than it does for getting hail damage on the same car...)

    Sometimes things get put into our fictional pieces that get people concerned. In this case, the post talks about a planet that has no landing zones and no value for approaching, and the fiction was just amped up to emphasise the danger of a world that is really just set dressing in the midst of our universe. We always try to be careful with our words, even in fiction, but sometimes we just get a bit carried away.

    We apologize if this made the situation unclear.

    Thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm,

    Rob

    I think i know know why in others games the Devs dont hang out in the forums
    thanks a lot rob
    There will be some things in Star Citizens game design that WILL take people out of their comfort zone. Thats a good thing

    Vigilia Pretium Libertatis, Latin for "The Price of Freedom is Vigilance".
  • Tosk

    Posts: 2478

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    Edited: by Tosk
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    Edited:
    [hide]

    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. This would mean condition repair is just another money sink, which I'd be fine with.
    However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless. Which means eventually you'd be forced to throw away your ships, regardless of how well you care for them. I don't think that's right.
    Aurora // Avenger // M50 // 350R // Freelancer // F7A-M Super Hornet // Gladiator // Starfarer // Retaliator // Constellation // Vanduul Scythe // Idris-M // Xi'An Khartu // Gladius // Herald // Redeemer // Carrack // Mustang // Orion // Hull A, B, C
  • Halo_003

    Posts: 85

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    Thank you Rob!
  • selbie

    Posts: 3658

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    For non-LTI players, will insurance premiums increase the more frequently they replace their ships? Will there be an insurance rating?
    Ausmonauts - Esto Fortis Principissa
  • Valorian

    Posts: 120

    Posted:
    Posted:
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    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless.

    You've stated your answer in your own concern... Part replacement resets your part condition. Condition isn't a permanent stat on your hull it's a stat of your parts.. i.e. mass drivers, neutron guns, plasma guns, etc.

    All you have to do is replace the part when it gets low in condition and I imagine there will be rare parts with superb condition (i.e. alien derelict parts or something along those lines).

    So what exactly is the concern?

  • Tosk

    Posts: 2478

    Posted:
    Edited: by Tosk
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    Edited:
    [hide]

    [hide]

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    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless.

    You've stated your answer in your own concern... Part replacement resets your part condition. Condition isn't a permanent stat on your hull it's a stat of your parts.. i.e. mass drivers, neutron guns, plasma guns, etc.

    All you have to do is replace the part when it gets low in condition and I imagine there will be rare parts with superb condition (i.e. alien derelict parts or something along those lines).

    So what exactly is the concern?

    Condition of the hull itself. Are you sure that the hull doesn't have a condition and that it only applies to parts? If so then I guess I'm just worried cause I tend to get worried over little things.

    So does the hull actually have a condition rating? Or is it just HP (which I know can be repaired)
    Can I actually replace the hull itself, or will I be forced to watch the condition of the hull slowly drop.
    Aurora // Avenger // M50 // 350R // Freelancer // F7A-M Super Hornet // Gladiator // Starfarer // Retaliator // Constellation // Vanduul Scythe // Idris-M // Xi'An Khartu // Gladius // Herald // Redeemer // Carrack // Mustang // Orion // Hull A, B, C
  • SilverBullet

    Posts: 2775

    On Probation
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    On Probation
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    Thank you Rob - Dev for explaining, however I have a nagging question, so if I was based on Spider (mercenary / pirate) and had my Origin 325a taken out by a UEE player marine in the neighbouring sector. A pirate insurance company (TBA?) would reimburse my loss or will a black market Origin dealership allow my criminal actions? Contary to what is written in the lore below..

    When you enter Spider’s airspace, you take your life into your own hands. No insurance company will begin to insure a spacecraft visiting Cathcart. The only thing going for you is the fact that it is the rare domain where pirates will almost never turn on their own. If you are accepted as part of a pack, the wolves will not strike.

    I am thinking I would have to collect my ship from a different part of space / planet from an insurer that secretly allows criminal activity if this is the case?
  • SmartAce

    Posts: 433

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    [hide]

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    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless.

    You've stated your answer in your own concern... Part replacement resets your part condition. Condition isn't a permanent stat on your hull it's a stat of your parts.. i.e. mass drivers, neutron guns, plasma guns, etc.

    All you have to do is replace the part when it gets low in condition and I imagine there will be rare parts with superb condition (i.e. alien derelict parts or something along those lines).

    So what exactly is the concern?

    Condition of the hull itself. Are you sure that the hull doesn't have a condition and that it only applies to parts? If so then I guess I'm just worried cause I tend to get worried over little things.

    So does the hull actually have a condition rating? Or is it just HP (which I know can be repaired)
    Can I actually replace the hull itself, or will I be forced to watch the condition of the hull slowly drop.
    Here is link to Chris' recent comments about this on another LTI thread. https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/351957/#Comment_351957

    "Think of the hull like aircraft or ship maintenance. As long as you service it every X hours of operation and keep it in good repair they should last indefinitely."
  • wreckedreational

    Posts: 116

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    Thanks for the clarification Rob!
  • Tosk

    Posts: 2478

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    [hide]

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    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless.

    You've stated your answer in your own concern... Part replacement resets your part condition. Condition isn't a permanent stat on your hull it's a stat of your parts.. i.e. mass drivers, neutron guns, plasma guns, etc.

    All you have to do is replace the part when it gets low in condition and I imagine there will be rare parts with superb condition (i.e. alien derelict parts or something along those lines).

    So what exactly is the concern?

    Condition of the hull itself. Are you sure that the hull doesn't have a condition and that it only applies to parts? If so then I guess I'm just worried cause I tend to get worried over little things.

    So does the hull actually have a condition rating? Or is it just HP (which I know can be repaired)
    Can I actually replace the hull itself, or will I be forced to watch the condition of the hull slowly drop.
    Here is link to Chris' recent comments about this on another LTI thread. https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/351957/#Comment_351957

    "Think of the hull like aircraft or ship maintenance. As long as you service it every X hours of operation and keep it in good repair they should last indefinitely."
    That quote has made me feel much much better. Thank you for showing it to me.
    Aurora // Avenger // M50 // 350R // Freelancer // F7A-M Super Hornet // Gladiator // Starfarer // Retaliator // Constellation // Vanduul Scythe // Idris-M // Xi'An Khartu // Gladius // Herald // Redeemer // Carrack // Mustang // Orion // Hull A, B, C
  • Syllable

    Posts: 63

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    Thank you Rob for clearing out a lot of confusion and doubts with this whole thing.

    Imperium Recruitment
  • SmartAce

    Posts: 433

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    @Tosk - my pleasure. I generally keep my "factual" opinion to myself unless I can reference the source.

    BTW - With your armada I can understand your concerns. You've definitely contributed more than your fair share to this game and I can see not wanting to risk losing your hull to inevitable loss via wear and tear.
  • travebosra

    Posts: 95

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    Hopefully now people can stop losing their minds over this.

    Somehow, I'm thinking that's just not going to happen...
    bendrocorp-signature-bosra.png
  • drakedge2000

    Posts: 3

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    Totally awesome!
  • Spookerton

    Posts: 19

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    In the interests of clarifying what has become a point of contention within my group of comrades, I would like to ask the following.

    wording from Robs post:

    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    wording from the insurance FAQ post:

    a payout or a ship replacement

    The FAQ post implies that there are intended to be options for monetary compensation OR ship replacement as a consequence of destruction while insured; Robs post appears to cover only monetary compensation. It makes sense for LTI that ship replacement is the result of destruction, but is ship replacement as an insurance option for normal insurance no longer on the books, if it ever was?
  • Tyvokka

    Posts: 348

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    Edited: by Tyvokka
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    Thank you Rob and SmartAce for clarifing things in this thread, and posting a link like this one

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/351957/#Comment_351957

    This made a lot things clearer to me, and sentence like the one from Chris Roberts
    ("Think of the hull like aircraft or ship maintenance. As long as you service it every X hours of operation and keep it in good repair they should last indefinitely.") makes totally sense to me. Me as a Downhill biker, if wouldn't take care of my bikes, it would be not a safe ride... same for my ships ;)
    |SUN| Tyvokka

  • VolantPhoenix

    Posts: 474

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    Edited: by VolantPhoenix
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    Edited:
    [hide]

    [hide]

    [hide]

    [hide]

    As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    Rob

    This line worries me.

    I'd be fine with it if condition could be replenished with maintenance, a good service, and maybe part replacement. However, the devs have said that condition can never be repaired!

    This means that eventually your replacement ship will become absolutely useless.

    You've stated your answer in your own concern... Part replacement resets your part condition. Condition isn't a permanent stat on your hull it's a stat of your parts.. i.e. mass drivers, neutron guns, plasma guns, etc.

    All you have to do is replace the part when it gets low in condition and I imagine there will be rare parts with superb condition (i.e. alien derelict parts or something along those lines).

    So what exactly is the concern?

    Condition of the hull itself. Are you sure that the hull doesn't have a condition and that it only applies to parts? If so then I guess I'm just worried cause I tend to get worried over little things.

    So does the hull actually have a condition rating? Or is it just HP (which I know can be repaired)
    Can I actually replace the hull itself, or will I be forced to watch the condition of the hull slowly drop.
    Plus engineering common sense - while sometimes replacement costs more than fixing the part, at other times there are really simple cheap fixes. And parts just make up the whole. So if the condition of your laser cannon is 50%, you can just replace various components.

    For example, with a car you virtually never have to replace the entire engine. You just have to replace bits that have broken. It is very rare that a particular part in the engine costs more to replace than it costs to replace the entire car, if you're talking about a car which is owned by you firsthand.
    [hide]


    Here is link to Chris' recent comments about this on another LTI thread. https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/351957/#Comment_351957

    "Think of the hull like aircraft or ship maintenance. As long as you service it every X hours of operation and keep it in good repair they should last indefinitely."

    Exactly. Servicing aircraft or ships generally does not require stripping off the battledamaged wings and replacing them with brand new ones. It involves repairing them, not replacing them.
  • Kaedan

    Posts: 14909

    On Probation
    Posted:
    On Probation
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    [hide]



    The FAQ post implies that there are intended to be options for monetary compensation OR ship replacement as a consequence of destruction while insured; Robs post appears to cover only monetary compensation. It makes sense for LTI that ship replacement is the result of destruction, but is ship replacement as an insurance option for normal insurance no longer on the books, if it ever was?


    Hull insurance replaces the ship, it does not give you money. Rob even mentioned that when he said that some ships, particularly larger ones, will take more time to be replaced because they need to be built, etc. And LTI and Standard insurance operate exactly the same (only difference is that you have to "renew" standard insurance with in-game currency).
  • Ciudadano_Uno

    Posts: 1066

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    Edited: by Ciudadano_Uno
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    Now that it is clear, what they must do is stop putting in the description of planets and systems sentences like:

    Insurance does not cover hull replacement for craft destroyed attempting to break past the cordon around .....

    They add nothing to gameplay, are inmersion breaking, and missleading.

    For now it is clear, but these sentences are going to rise the issue about insurances again and again and again in the years to come (I predict we will see a thread about LTI not cover losses in that planet when this piece of loere is released for general public as it is now). Are placed in the description of systems and planets and it's suppose, despite literature, they describe what we could find in those places,

    I love the lore so far and it is very good, but this kind of "spice" is pointless and, as we have seen these days, very dangerous.

    Salu2 :)
    Star Citizen's hispanic community
    ciudest_logo.png
  • Spookerton

    Posts: 19

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    Hull insurance replaces the ship, it does not give you money.

    So it's actually the monetary compensation side of the argument that's erroneously present in the insurance FAQ, and implied in Robs wording? Gotcha, thanks. (Not intended as sarcastic; The FAQ and robs post really do read that way, so if it's stated elsewhere that replacement is the definitive insurance media, that's good.)

  • Kaedan

    Posts: 14909

    On Probation
    Posted:
    On Probation
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    [hide]


    So it's actually the monetary compensation side of the argument that's erroneously present in the insurance FAQ, and implied in Robs wording? Gotcha, thanks. (Not intended as sarcastic; The FAQ and robs post really do read that way, so if it's stated elsewhere that replacement is the definitive insurance media, that's good.)

    Yeah, the monetary compensation is erroneous, from everything that has been told to us from the developers so far. Everything they've said indicates that a ship will be replaced with a ship. But who knows, maybe they intend to work out a second option that works as a payout.

    Regardless, the default method will be actual ship replacement.
  • Farris

    Posts: 699

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    Posted:
    0.jpg


    [hide]

    Hi, folks. A lot of contention here, so I just wanted to step in and clarify a few things, since this post has generated a lot of traffic.

    First of all, let's get one thing clear. Lifetime insurance is the same as regular hull insurance, with the added benefit that you don't have to re-up it when it expires, because it doesn't. Lifetime insurance gives you something that newer players won't have: insurance that you don't have to worry about renewing. It doesn't give you anything that they cannot get by purchasing normal policies. (Thanks to Roquen, Moses Baxter and others for pointing this out...)

    As Chris has said before, particularly on the original FAQ, hull insurance does work in any situation, even dangerous areas. As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    That being said, insurance policies (lifetime or otherwise) will not be instant "get out of jail free" cards. It takes time for ships to be replaced, particularly larger ones. So treating a ship like something special that you have worked hard for is a reasonable approach. Continued abuse of insurance coverage could very well result in longer replacement times, as the insurance company needs to verify that no abuse is taking place. (It takes much longer to get your check for running your car into a bridge than it does for getting hail damage on the same car...)

    Sometimes things get put into our fictional pieces that get people concerned. In this case, the post talks about a planet that has no landing zones and no value for approaching, and the fiction was just amped up to emphasise the danger of a world that is really just set dressing in the midst of our universe. We always try to be careful with our words, even in fiction, but sometimes we just get a bit carried away.

    We apologize if this made the situation unclear.

    Thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm,

    Rob

    10g1.png

  • Azaral

    Posts: 4988

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    One point of contention I have is that upgrades and cargo are not currently planned to be insurable in nul sec areas. So this would force players to either strip down to bear bone ships and carry minimal cargo - Or fly around in maxed out ships with fleet support. My preference would be for upgrade and cargo insurance to be simply much more expensive in nul sec areas. As a pirate I don't want to see players deterred from carrying cargo or flying around with no upgrades - Or run into hardcore guilds that would take advantage of this. I would just like reconsideration to be given to simply making insurance more expensive in nul sec rather than providing no insurance at all as I can perceive the end result.
  • Lastof

    Posts: 1351

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    One point of contention I have is that upgrades and cargo are not currently planned to be insurable in nul sec areas. So this would force players to either strip down to bear bone ships and carry minimal cargo - Or fly around in maxed out ships with fleet support. My preference would be for upgrade and cargo insurance to be simply much more expensive in nul sec areas. As a pirate I don't want to see players deterred from carrying cargo or flying around with no upgrades - Or run into hardcore guilds that would take advantage of this. I would just like reconsideration to be given to simply making insurance more expensive in nul sec rather than providing no insurance at all as I can perceive the end result.

    We haven't actually been told WHERE outfit insurance doesn't work, only:
    Insurance FAQ:
    [hide]

    Some of the additional policies like upgrade or cargo insurance will be rated based on risk levels. Risk level 1 being the safest systems and risk level 5 being the most dangerous system that is insurable for cargo or upgrades. Any risk level over 5 is un-insurable.

    No specification as to where that is. People seem to be assuming it will be the lawless sectors just outside UEE space, where PVP is allowable, but I don't think we have any evidence to that. Those areas might be risk level 5, it might be that the only areas that are above level 5 are places like Vanduul homeworlds (or similar), where no human vessel can go and reasonably expect to survive. We don't know. Any conclusions based on such assumptions are pointless until we get official word.
    Lastof - Member of the Loose Alliance of Mercenaries and Privateers
  • Ciudadano_Uno

    Posts: 1066

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    Edited: by Ciudadano_Uno
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    Sorry Lastof but you made me laugh :)

    It's pretty clear were you've got insurance coverage and where not for cargo and components. What you are asking is for specifics to be done and that we'll know when ready, but at this point is unimportant. However you can make a good guess about probable no coverage systems; for example, all vanduul space will be no coverage space for sure, probably all lawless space too, high chances for Xi'An space to be no coverage too. If you want names I can give you some. Cathcart, Orion, Taranis, Caliban, Vendetta, Null,...

    Salu2 :)
    Star Citizen's hispanic community
    ciudest_logo.png
  • Azaral

    Posts: 4988

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    I could understand if they wanted to make upgrades and cargo for jump point navigation uninsurable, flying into a star, flying into a system containing lethal radiation, flying into a black hole etc. But it would be a complete pain flying to and from Cathcart if you have to strip down and do a nudie dash past pvp fleets.
  • MharcusSteel

    Posts: 116

    Posted:
    Posted:
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    Hi, folks. A lot of contention here, so I just wanted to step in and clarify a few things, since this post has generated a lot of traffic.

    First of all, let's get one thing clear. Lifetime insurance is the same as regular hull insurance, with the added benefit that you don't have to re-up it when it expires, because it doesn't. Lifetime insurance gives you something that newer players won't have: insurance that you don't have to worry about renewing. It doesn't give you anything that they cannot get by purchasing normal policies. (Thanks to Roquen, Moses Baxter and others for pointing this out...)

    As Chris has said before, particularly on the original FAQ, hull insurance does work in any situation, even dangerous areas. As also stated, this is the replacement value of the original hull and original parts (not overclocked parts) in the condition that they were last docked.

    That being said, insurance policies (lifetime or otherwise) will not be instant "get out of jail free" cards. It takes time for ships to be replaced, particularly larger ones. So treating a ship like something special that you have worked hard for is a reasonable approach. Continued abuse of insurance coverage could very well result in longer replacement times, as the insurance company needs to verify that no abuse is taking place. (It takes much longer to get your check for running your car into a bridge than it does for getting hail damage on the same car...)

    Sometimes things get put into our fictional pieces that get people concerned. In this case, the post talks about a planet that has no landing zones and no value for approaching, and the fiction was just amped up to emphasise the danger of a world that is really just set dressing in the midst of our universe. We always try to be careful with our words, even in fiction, but sometimes we just get a bit carried away.

    We apologize if this made the situation unclear.

    Thank you for your continued support and enthusiasm,

    Rob

    YAYYY!!! I have waited so long for this post!

    Thankyou very much, Rob!! I did see a post by CR saying that ordinary hull insurance might not be covered in low security areas, and was quite concerned for my wonderful 'Lancer.

    You've made me very happy!

    Mharcus.
    Saints 3G - A Christian Gaming Community
    Star Citizens, click here to join our Squadron
  • Isitope

    Posts: 1788

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    uh, the number one reason people pledged was to give Chris Roberts the money he needed to make the game he wants to make.

    However, "some" people here are saying that the number one reason they pledged was for LTI.

    To those people i say, What have you done to help this community other than discuss LTI endlessly.



    It is and is used as a selling point and incentive in packages. The OB/Vets have used it to exclude others and it is their attitude and the gimmie gimmie you owe me that is the issue.Until it is removed as an incentive from the package it will remain a contentious issue.
    The toxic attitude is causing harm. and you are right the game doesnt need any more money and any reason to pledge should be removed.

This discussion has been closed.