Can we please stop with the myth "the game is already funded"!

Hiel

Posts: 8212

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Seems like some players are still repeating this based on a stretch goal years ago. That has absolutely no relevance to the Star Citizen of today which is vastly different in scope an overall organisation size. The game isn't already funded, the games scope increases with the extra funding CIG receives. If funding stopped tomorrow everything wouldn't be fine, but funding isn't about to stop tomorrow so there's no need to worry on that front.

CIG are still crowdfunding because they need to do so. Not because Chris wants to swim in a pool full of $50 bills like Scrooge McDuck. Some people have deluded themselves into thinking bad press about Star Citizen doesn't matter. That the games already funded an the current community we have now is all we ever need. That's simply not the case, I'd hazard a guess that most of us found Star Citizen through various online media or via friends referral.

When people are misinformed about Star Citizen, or have some valid sometimes harsh criticism we should listen. Because it absolutely matters what people who haven't bought into Star Citizen think. We where all like that at some point, an simply dismissing their fears & criticism as uninformed or irrelevant doesn't help anyone.

Sorry if this doesn't seem to have any context, but I'm sick of seeing this repeated on these forums. No the game isn't already funded, an yes we still need to encourage gamers of all varieties into the Star Citizen community. Even those skeptical of the game.
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  • walltar

    Posts: 22212

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    Well... technically the game is funded.

    Extra funding and features are kind of... you know... extra.

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  • Hiel

    Posts: 8212

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    Well... technically the game is funded.

    Extra funding and features are kind of... you know... extra.

    Sorry but no.
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  • Nocturnal7x

    Posts: 2091

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    This doesn't matter. At all. Sometimes you just have to let stuff go. After this thread people are not going to stop saying what you don't want them to say.

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  • Rorinthas

    Posts: 2771

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    Maybe @grafton can enlighten further, but it was stated (I think) two years ago that SC has enough reserve funds to finish the game if funding stopped right then, which it didn't. Therefore the game is on some level funded. SC is continuing funding because a majority of the community wanted the opportunity to see the project expand and grow, not because they are hard up for cash. Also, all the crying about missed deadlines, delays, feature changes, etc means nothing because the wallets are still wide open and that's the only metric that really matters.
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  • Ibly1

    Posts: 2530

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    What's your problem with Scrooge McDuck?
  • Nocturnal7x

    Posts: 2091

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    God, whoever Grafton is, he must have so many notifications, like thousands. People, please stop @ing the poor soul. Sorry to anyone named ing.

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  • Gunslinger253

    Posts: 1618

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    Edited: by Gunslinger253
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    The game is fully funded. Right now we are funding features.
  • Hiel

    Posts: 8212

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    This doesn't matter. At all. Sometimes you just have to let stuff go. After this thread people are not going to stop saying what you don't want them to say.

    Thanks captain obvious, I never meant to correct the entire community. Just argue my point on a position which I think makes sense.
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  • grafton

    Posts: 20218

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    Thanks for the callout, @Rorinthas! @Hiei, CR claimed the game was "fully funded" at $25M -

    Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources.

    from: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

    Cheers!
    In all the wide 'verse, there's none like me.
  • TBenz

    Posts: 17535

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    Thanks for the callout, Rorinthas! Hiei, CR claimed the game was "fully funded" at $25M -

    Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources.

    from: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

    Cheers!
    /thread
    "If you don't want to answer these questions, don't. You don't have to be snide about it. If you can't be nice, don't respond." - Thylbana

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  • Hiel

    Posts: 8212

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    Don't forget Chis Roberts wrote that CIG put in 100 million of their own money on top of the crowdfunding money. They have more than enough to fund the game. It's fully funded.

    https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3910150/#Comment_3910150

    Did you actually read the thing you quoted, he outlined the 100 million as a misquote. An Simply stated that over 100 million will be invested by the time the development has finished. Nowhere does he say that's his own money.
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  • Rivethead318

    Posts: 2881

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    the game is fully funded.

    Where does he say that? Not in the link you provided. All he says in that link is that CIG will have put $100M into the project by the time it's released. Since it's not yet released, I think it's safe to say he's off by $28 million (and counting) as of today.....
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  • Hiel

    Posts: 8212

    Posted:
    Edited: by Hiel
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    Thanks for the callout, @Rorinthas! @Hiei, CR claimed the game was "fully funded" at $25M -

    Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources.

    from: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

    Cheers!
    I'm aware of this, I even mentioned it in my OP. An also stated it has absolutely zero relevance to Star Citizen as it is today.

    If I go back that far I could quote Chris Roberts saying the Idris is a corvette, therefore demand CIG make the Idris corvette. I'd be a moron to do so, all I would have to do is actually realise the scope is vastly different now.
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  • Rivethead318

    Posts: 2881

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    Edited: by Rivethead318
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    Seems like some players are still repeating this based on a stretch goal years ago. That has absolutely no relevance to the Star Citizen of today which is vastly different in scope an overall organisation size. The game isn't already funded, the games scope increases with the extra funding CIG receives. If funding stopped tomorrow everything wouldn't be fine, but funding isn't about to stop tomorrow so there's no need to worry on that front.

    CIG are still crowdfunding because they need to do so. Not because Chris wants to swim in a pool full of $50 bills like Scrooge McDuck. Some people have deluded themselves into thinking bad press about Star Citizen doesn't matter. That the games already funded an the current community we have now is all we ever need. That's simply not the case, I'd hazard a guess that most of us found Star Citizen through various online media or via friends referral.

    When people are misinformed about Star Citizen, or have some valid sometimes harsh criticism we should listen. Because it absolutely matters what people who haven't bought into Star Citizen think. We where all like that at some point, an simply dismissing their fears & criticism as uninformed or irrelevant doesn't help anyone.

    Sorry if this doesn't seem to have any context, but I'm sick of seeing this repeated on these forums. No the game isn't already funded, an yes we still need to encourage gamers of all varieties into the Star Citizen community. Even those skeptical of the game.

    I disagree. I strongly believe they could stop funding tomorrow and have enough money raised to finish and release both games (SC and SQ42). And even if they didn't....having raised $128 million in crowd funding would likely open up plenty of lending opportunities at any major financial institution. I could easily see them getting a $50 million LOC with $128 million already in pocket.

    So honestly....I wish they would stop funding (they won't)...I personally think it's a distraction that isn't needed at this point. Focus on finishing the games, release them, and let sales of the actual games be the new source of "funding".

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  • Kefeinzel

    Posts: 3333

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    I think it is a fair claim to make that time and CIG's actions have contradicted CR on the particular claim grafton and hiei have highlighted.
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  • LtChambers

    Posts: 184

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    OP is almost certainly right. Unless CIG plans to cut the team significantly in the near future, its labor costs alone are burning a lot of cash. The last 4 years:
    Assuming an average $90k salary:
    2013: 48 employees = 4,320,000
    2014: 161 employees = 14,490,000
    2015: 258 employees = 23,220,000
    2016: 363 employees = 32,670,000
    Labor costs to date = 74,700,000

    This doesn't include the outsourced development costs and property leases. It wouldn't surprise me if money concerns were on the horizon at CIG, but I don't think it's a terribly pressing issue yet. But people who predict a release in 2018 have to take this into account.
  • Hiel

    Posts: 8212

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    OP is almost certainly right. Unless CIG plans to cut the team significantly in the near future, its labor costs alone are burning a lot of cash. The last 4 years:
    Assuming an average $90k salary:
    2013: 48 employees = 4,320,000
    2014: 161 employees = 14,490,000
    2015: 258 employees = 23,220,000
    2016: 363 employees = 32,670,000
    Labor costs to date = 74,700,000

    This doesn't include the outsourced development costs and property leases. It wouldn't surprise me if money concerns were on the horizon at CIG, but I don't think it's a terribly pressing issue yet. But people who predict a release in 2018 have to take this into account.

    Thanks, I'm sure some people think CIG operate on magic & fairy dust.
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  • MuddyGrimes

    Posts: 554

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    Edited: by MuddyGrimes
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    Huh?
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  • Unidentified_User

    Posts: 51

    Posted:
    The OP makes very valid points but at the same time, is this not the reason for a lot of peoples complaints? Feature creep and all...? Hard to know what has and hasnt been "paid for".
    (Personally I am patient in this matter and already enjoy playing the alpha a lot)
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  • Sloopik

    Posts: 290

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    Edited: by Sloopik
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    Maybe @grafton can enlighten further, but it was stated (I think) two years ago that SC has enough reserve funds to finish the game if funding stopped right then, which it didn't. Therefore the game is on some level funded. SC is continuing funding because a majority of the community wanted the opportunity to see the project expand and grow, not because they are hard up for cash. Also, all the crying about missed deadlines, delays, feature changes, etc means nothing because the wallets are still wide open and that's the only metric that really matters.

    That's great and all but we need the funds to last well after the game is created. If they are going to have a subscription based system that's fine.

    But if they aren't, then the game is never truly "funded". You're thinking about this game like it's a single player game. This game needs to have constant development for the next 10-15 years, so there is never a point in time until the game shuts down where we can say it's fully "funded".
  • Billyjack

    Posts: 39

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    The game is fully funded.

    The end result matters not. If you stopped throwing money at them today then development will continue. If it wasn't funded then development could not continue.
  • Arunsun

    Posts: 4816

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    Thanks for the callout, @Rorinthas! @Hiei, CR claimed the game was "fully funded" at $25M -

    Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources.

    from: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

    Cheers!
    The problem with that quote those is it being from the 25 million goal, where back then things like PG planets were a a distant vision, years ago the idea of having something more than very rudimentary fps was also a distant vision. Chris has said (I believe somewhere around the 75ish million range) since then that if funding had stopped that day, they would be able to make A game but not THE game he apparently had fully envisioned.

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  • O5ighter

    Posts: 789

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    Who do you think you are @Hiel, asking questions that could burst bubbles. Please stop and fall in line. Thank you.
  • Logicsol

    Posts: 16540

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    While the game is technically fully funded, and CiG is likely completely capable of completing both SQ42 and SC it Funding stopped today, it wouldn't be a good thing.

    We'd get a lower quality product with less content.

    There is also the point that CiG scales development to match the funding, so it's not like they have 100 million sitting around because they are only going to spend 25 million on the game.
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  • Rorinthas

    Posts: 2771

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    Thanks for the callout, @Rorinthas! @Hiei, CR claimed the game was "fully funded" at $25M -

    Even though we’ve fully funded the base game, every extra dollar helps to make the experience better. The content we talk about in these stretch goals isn’t “feature creep”; it’s elements we’ve been building and planning that will be all that more impressive with additional resources.

    from: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13345-Letter-From-The-Chairman-25-Million

    Cheers!
    The problem with that quote those is it being from the 25 million goal, where back then things like PG planets were a a distant vision, years ago the idea of having something more than very rudimentary fps was also a distant vision. Chris has said (I believe somewhere around the 75ish million range) since then that if funding had stopped that day, they would be able to make A game but not THE game he apparently had fully envisioned.
    The point I'm trying to make is, funding didn't stop then, funding hasn't stopped and CIG just had their best day ever. Any four year-old startup would love to do 1-2 million in sales a month.
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  • OffDutyFO

    Posts: 165

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    I think people are arguing over what their idea of "funded" means.

    As CR stated they should have enough to finish the game to whatever basic standards and features they have promised (in theory).

    By that definition the game is "funded".

    Since more money = more features/depth (in theory) than the game only becomes "funded" by any particular individual when it has fulfilled their preconceived notion of what the game should be in its final form. Since we are still so early into development for the PU the second definition will only be realized in the future, and on a personal basis.

    All that said as OP stated funding should only be an issue now if they grossly misuse the $$$
  • Likasius

    Posts: 677

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    no
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  • OffDutyFO

    Posts: 165

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    Edited: by OffDutyFO
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    OP is almost certainly right. Unless CIG plans to cut the team significantly in the near future, its labor costs alone are burning a lot of cash. The last 4 years:
    Assuming an average $90k salary:
    2013: 48 employees = 4,320,000
    2014: 161 employees = 14,490,000
    2015: 258 employees = 23,220,000
    2016: 363 employees = 32,670,000
    Labor costs to date = 74,700,000

    This doesn't include the outsourced development costs and property leases. It wouldn't surprise me if money concerns were on the horizon at CIG, but I don't think it's a terribly pressing issue yet. But people who predict a release in 2018 have to take this into account.

    I don't disagree with your math, but doesn't 90K average seem a bit high? obviously executives and leads will be payed well 100K+ but the average developer/programmer? /shrug.

    I'm only saying this hopefully because as you stated, if the numbers are correct than they have already spent a huge chunk of the money.

    Edit: Typo
  • Daden

    Posts: 1957

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    If we just stop funding, CIG will have to finish the game! /s

    A lesser experience isn't an option at this point. It's high-water mark AAA first person universe or bust.
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  • KommissarKlose

    Posts: 7027

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    The game is fully funded.

    The end result matters not. If you stopped throwing money at them today then development will continue. If it wasn't funded then development could not continue.

    What makes you say it couldn't continue?

    People do remember that there was a point in this time before SC was -not- completely funded, they were accepting money (outside of KS), and there was a very real chance they might not hit funding needed.

    Its quite clear that even without the stretch goals and all the other added stuff, SC/SQ42 could not have been completed in a way anywhere near the concept they were trying to push.

    They have since moved to a model where they keenly know the amount of money they can generate over time, and the amount they are spending, and they clearly are working on getting the game done. But to say they have all the money they need is preposterous.

    They know funding won't cut off 100% unless they do it themselves (or some outside party causes them to tank). They can plan accordingly with regards to fluctuations in funding and that is their current model.
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