Star Citizen Economy and Employment

Eschatos

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A collection and discussion of the available info on the economy and various professions in Star Citizen. Please remember that while official sources are used whenever possible, everything is subject to change. Feel free to discuss, dream, refine, revise, correct or add anything - all input is appreciated.

USEFUL INFO

The Economy
Mining
Exploration
Piracy
Passenger Transport
Cargo Interaction
Science
Repair
Salvaging
Medical
Crew Stations
ARK StarMap
Galactic Guide
Star Map Matrix
Desired Professions
Crafting Discussion
Français


EMPLOYMENT

These are some of the "officially supported" professions in Star Citizen: Racer, Fighter pilot, Starliner Pilot, Mercenary, Explorer, Bounty Hunter, Merchant, Hauler, Pirate, Privateer, Mining/Harvesting, Search & Rescue, Salvaging, Repair & Maintenance, Scientist, Medic, Industrialist, Journalist and Courier. However there are many other possibilities. See "Desired Professions" above.

Professions can be freelance as well as using a mix of scripted, dynamic and procedurally generated missions.

A simplified overview of the economy showing how every action is connected in the dynamic mission generation system:

llhykhs.png


COMMODITIES

Basic Goods: Manufactured goods (3 tiers), products and commodities.
Premium Goods: components that have been upgraded through performance tuning/overclocking.
Unique Goods: Items that are not available through the supply chain, i.e. Vanduul knives, rare loot, mission/storyline rewards, rare salvaged parts, alien artifacts, etc.
Raw Materials: Ore, gas, wood, water and other found, gathered or mined materials.
Refined Resources: Fuel, steel, lumber, purified water, and other resources refined from Raw Materials.
Salvaged Materials: Found materials and components that can be sold, repurposed or used in production of Basic Goods.


The examples below help complete the picture of the economy. NOTE: the following are a WIP and not final.

19NTfbMGOqRcKnC24Y6O.png5UgVaOU.jpg


Items and Loot

Most items in the game will come from the manufacturing system/supply chain.
There will not be traditional loot drops or loot tables as found in many MMOs.
We will be able to salvage some items from destroyed ships, if they survive the explosion.
Intact ships can be boarded and looted.
Unique items can be found in the universe, from bosses and other sources.
NPCs are unique and will disappear from the world when killed, they can't be 'farmed'.

Population

Each star system will be made up of NPCs and players.
The player population will be about 10% of the NPC population.
When a player enters the system, they take the place of an NPC.
NPCs are living, working, trading, pirating, manufacturing, etc., just as a player would do.
Players will not be able to spike the economy, the number of NPCs working and trading will help keep things in check.
There will always be a market, even if players aren't currently filling it.
NPC activity that isn't visible to the players is simulated in the background.

Production

"Crafting" (manufacturing) in Star Citizen has been compared to SimCity's system.
There is a planned companion app to help manage production when not logged into the actual game.
The production process consists of getting the proper equipment, gathering materials, refining materials, producing goods, transporting goods, improving basic goods (performance tuning), and selling goods.
Factories and storefronts on planets can be owned by players.
Factories can consist of multiple production nodes.
Production nodes are specific to a certain type of item, such as a laser or lumber.
Refining can be done on board ships as well as at factories.
Production quality is potentially impacted by employee happiness.
Economy-generating missions are spawned based on the demands of the supply chain, including piracy.
At each step in the process an NPC will fill the role if a player is not available.
Production is turn-based. You will need the proper grade of electronics, materials, and a certain amount of workers to produce x amount of items per turn. Factories will create an order for whatever they're missing. The orders will go to the mission boards. AI will fill the order if a player doesn't.
If your factory is doing well, purchasing more machines will attract more employees and the population of that planet will actually grow as a result.
"If you go to a factory and the AI has bought all the missiles, there are no more missiles for purchase that turn. Now, of course, if nobody's buying any missiles, there's a big inventory. First of all, the price of missiles would go down, but then also that factory is going to be running at a loss, and so maybe it starts to lay off some of its people."
Factory mismanagement will lead to unemployment and unhappiness, which will cause increased crime and piracy in a star system..

Resource Gathering

Mining and Salvaging combine exploration, skill, and logistics.
Spaceborne gases can be collected from gas giants and extrasolar sources and refined into fuel.
There are 3 types of fuel: basic, boost and quantum.
Larger ships are capable of tractoring in spaceborne junk and asteroids.

Money Sinks

Fees & taxes (docking, hangar rental, insurance), fuel, medical bills, repairs/upkeep, ammunition, wages (hired NPCs)

Insurance Chart by @Mammon
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Other Sources:
Engadget on the Economy
PCGamer Interview
Ship Customization
Ship Components
AskaDev - Persistent Universe Design
AskaDev - Rob Irving
AskaDev - Pete Mackay
AskaDev - Nate Blaisdell
The Guardian
Reddit AMA
Wingman's Hangar
Around the Verse
10-4 series
UEC Currency
DevTracker
http://imperialnews.network/
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  • Eschatos

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    EQUIPMENT & COMPONENTS

    The various equipment and systems found on ships or used by players are made up of Hardpoints, Components and Subcomponents, providing a lot of potential for modularity and customization. Since we've been told that most items in the game are created through the manufacturing system, it stands to reason that components will account for a large amount of the economic activity in Star Citizen. At this time it's not clear which items can be created by players at production nodes, and which are NPC only.

    Most equipment comes in varying levels of quality and can be damaged, wear down over time, and be repaired. The state of an item is determined by its condition (hit points) and durability (level of wear). Wear and tear is more difficult to repair than direct damage.

    Components come in 4 sizes - light, medium, heavy and capital class - that will be used in different configurations to fit all ships. That means some ships could have multiples of the same type of component. Hardware will also come in various categories based on their properties - Military, Industrial, Civilian and Competition. Competition, for example is expensive, top of the line performance with no regard for signature or fuel/power consumption (RTV 2.9, 30/09/16).

    More detailed info on components can be found here, here and here.

    Power Plant / Quantum Drive Concepts
    aTE36ku.jpgbD04AAG.jpg

    Shield Generator Concept
    S8rCITM.jpg

    Cooler Unit Concept
    Pl64e9P.jpg

    Modular Components
    lULxUQs.gifTi6eud9.gifqqumuEZ.jpg


    Examples of Ship Components

    Intakes - fuel system scoops
    Modifiers - cooling systems, exhaust system, overdrive, afterburner, overclocker
    Engines - fission, fusion, anti-matter
    Thrusters - main thrusters, maneuvering thrusters, thrust rating (1-10), articulation type (fixed, jointed, flex, vectored)

    Some other examples of components mentioned by CIG: hull, armor, cargo hold, internal bulkhead, avionics system, refinery tools, gun capacitor, jump drive, shield generator, power plant, fuel tank, weapon batteries, ammo racks, devices to hide cargo


    Subcomponents

    Subcomponents provide additional benefits to the component they are attached to, allowing for further customization of a player’s ship. They are divided into three categories, each providing specific areas of improvement.

    pnk3h58

    Subcomponent types are universal across ships and components of the same size class, a coolant rod from a Gladius’ laser cannon can replace a Hornet’s coolant rod housed in the shield generator. This provides a great deal of flexibility, allowing players to juggle elements between various systems as needed, as well as opening up opportunities to patch their ship using scavenged parts.

    Some more info on subcomponents can be found in the Ship Repair & Maintenance design article.

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    Hardpoint Categories

    CLASS 1: Fixed Gun. This is your standard forward facing laser, neutron cannon, particle gun, etc.
    CLASS 2: Articulated Gun. Think the guns in Freelancer or the smart weapons found in later Wing Commanders. Class 2 hardpoints are rarer and more expensive, but they allow guns to rotate on an arc rather than fire point blank.
    CLASS 3: Pylon. This is where you mount missiles, ECM units, radar pods, drop tanks, additional ammunition, special scanners, etc.
    CLASS 4: Turret. Uses the same fixed guns as class 1, but mounted in a separate area of the ship which may be crewed by another person. Turret slots can also mount pylon-type weapons (i.e. a tractor beam or a chaff dispenser.)
    Class 5: Manned point defense turrets, generally mounted on larger ships and capital ships.
    Class 6: Heavy manned capital ship turrets – used for ship-to-ship combat.
    Class 7: Spinal mount lasers – heavy hitters that are effective against medium and large ships.
    Class 8: Capital ship cannons – extended range heavy weapons used for capital ship battles in space.


    Examples of Hardpoint Attachments

    Energy Weapons:
    Behring Mk. V Laser Cannon
    Clarkson Industries C44 Electron Gun
    A&R Fix-mount Plasma Particle Blaster
    Intergalactic Research Concepts Phased-Array Tachyon Cannon (X-1)

    Ballistic (hard-ammo) Weapons:
    Klaus & Werner Mass Driver Cannon
    ASD PN-21 Scattergun
    Behring Ripper GaussGun
    MaxOx 35mm Dredge Gun (fires AP Sabot rounds)

    Self-propelled Weapons:
    Guidance - heat seeking, Image Recognition, Friend or Foe
    Propulsion - solid or liquid propellant, exotic
    Payload - high explosive, nuclear, EMP and anti-matter

    Behring Arrow (Dumb/HE) (aka: Lemmings, Matchsticks)
    Talon Devastator (Heat Seeking/Variable payload)
    Behring Judge (Friend or Foe/HE or AP)
    Talon IR4 Stalker (Image Recognition/HE or Anti-Matter)
    Behring Mk2 (Friend or Foe/MIRV)
    Joker XXV Vampire (aka Leech)
    Talon Fusion Torpedo (Dumb/Nuclear)
    ASD Chaff Auto-Dispenser Countermeasures
    Joker XB-44 TomatoCan (IR or HS/HE Frag)
    ASD BV-8 Blackout (Dumb or IR/EMP)
    Talon SV32 Bulkhead Buster

    Some other examples of attachments, weapons and equipment mentioned by CIG (including handheld): sentry drones, drop ships, tanks, handguns, rifles, shotguns (energy and hard-ammo), distortion cannons, rail guns, shredders, bombs, torpedoes, knives, crossbow


    Electronic Warfare Equipment
    http://tinyurl.com/ncr4wfw

    EMP
    Data-Spike Missile
    Distortion Weapons
    Signal-Intercept Equipment
    Ship-mounted antenna systems
    Avionics modules (for storage, decryption and encryption of transmissions)
    EM Flare
    Heat Chaff
    Data Chaff
    Decoy Missile
    Scan Shielding

    Vanguard Sentinel eWar Suite
    z435tkm


    mobiGlas

    mobiGlas is a highly customizable, personal electronic device that all players have with them all the time, that uses a combination of augmented reality and holographic displays to help you navigate and interact with the world around you. This is where you will go to find economic and shopping info, among many other functions.

    "The mG is an essential tool no matter your aspirations. It helps you track missions, review trades, plan routes and directly interact with the world in so many ways. It supports every gameplay role you can imagine. Not just a replacement for traditional menus, it is a tool in combat, space and planetary exploration, mining, scavenging, role-playing and more."

    q4gqk36L3iGiN2.jpgq5qewwu

    mobiGlas components:

    -Wrist mounted case
    -Universal mobiGlas Connector (UMC)
    -Holographic Projector
    -Holographic Screen
    -Back Panel
    -Biometric Battery
    -Primary Scanner port
    -Specialized Scanner Port
    -Data Drive
    -Intra-System Comm. Card
    -Power Chip
    -Chip slots
    -Wireless Emitter
    -Optional Armor Cover Add-on
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

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    SHIP MODIFICATION

    SHIP SPECS

    Ship customization will likely have a huge impact on the economy as players buy, sell and tweak their equipment to get the perfect build for the job at hand. This is a general overview of some of the options that will be available. As above, please feel free to comment and suggest changes or updates, along with a link to the source where appropriate.

    "Ship modification is a game of resource management where players will juggle space requirements, power consumption, heat load, signature, mass, CPU resources, durability and the cost and availability of parts. We've created a system that allows you to manage all of these individual pieces in intricate detail, but also build a unified whole that will behave the way you want it to without micromanagement during the actual combat."

    "Intricate systems management will be entirely optional."

    Some examples of factors affecting modification: physical space (appropriate hardpoint and capacity), power usage, heat load, signature, mass, cpu load, durability, item quality, availability, legality


    PERFORMANCE TUNING (Overclocking)

    All devices will have a threshold where they're running at maximum efficiency, and a maximum yield. Performance tuning is the process of tweaking a basic item to find that threshold. Some items will have a potential that will be greater than others.

    "Parts are manufactured within tolerances, and while every part that rolls off the line will function precisely to its rated value, its true capability can be discovered by players willing to risk the consequences of failure. Pushing hardware past its rated specifications can have disastrous results though, and even successfully tuned parts will likely be more power hungry and generate a larger signature!"

    To alleviate some of the risk, we'll be able to bench test our equipment in the hangar or workshop before taking it into space.


    RESOURCE MANAGEMENT

    All of these components come with costs and side effects. They require space and power, affect a ship's mass and maneuverability, generate heat, and even affect CPU load and a ship's electromagnetic signature, which avionics systems use to track targets.

    Pipes

    Pipes connect the systems together. The power pipe supplies each device with power, while the data pipe transmits data between components. For example, the shield generator sends data out on the data pipe so the shield level can be displayed on the HUD. Pipes can be disrupted with varying repercussions!

    X7dk39f.png


    SHIP REPAIR & MAINTENANCE

    Repair and Maintenance are key elements of the economy, closely related to professions like resource gathering and salvaging. Star Citizen’s repair system works in conjunction with the engine’s detailed damage model. The basis for repair technology in Star Citizen are tools equipped with multipurpose lasers that can trim away damaged material or sinter construction material injected onto a component’s frame, rebuilding its structure. Repairs taking place in a workshop require the consumption of the raw construction materials gathered through Mining, Scavenging and Trade.

    Any ship with repair capabilities has two roles that must be filled to ensure a successful repair job.

    The Task Manager designates repair tasks to be undertaken and is responsible for the allocation of materials to satisfy part reconstruction requirements.

    j8clt66ncdcefcne32lt9o3zxw2m

    The Repair Arm Operator uses the robotic arm to perform hull stripping, reconstruction and patching of damaged sections.

    nwdnw55oqx6zwrnh8948x

    When a workshop is not available, field repairs can be performed using the handheld multitool.

    qhexd6pjSB1KEd.pngRroHFUS.png


    CREW STATIONS

    In addition to specialized roles like repair and maintenance, there are also several general roles which can potentially apply to every ship. There are currently 9 distinct crew stations that can be configured to allow the different seat actions associated with each of these roles:

    Captain - view and override all seat actions, permissions, security and alert states
    Pilot - flying, docking, boarding
    Engineering - power management, resource allocation to weapons, shields, heating and cooling etc.
    Tactics - weapons strategy: ammunition management, switching between weapons, target painting, countermeasures
    Navigation - star map, route planning, fuel management
    Turrets - manning turret weapons and drone control
    Science - (depends on the ship configuration) Ewar, medicine, scanning etc.
    Communications - internal and external comms, hailing, intercom, passenger comms, market data
    Security - crew access, NPC management, locking doors, alarms etc.

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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

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    MISCELLANY (July 2013)

    From Chris Roberts, Fearless Leader:

    "Owning a factory is the equivalent of crafting."
    Factory owners can hire players or NPCs to fill any role, i.e. hauling or security.
    When hiring employees, you can either provide ships for each purpose or hire employees with their own ships.
    NPC employee wages are based on their quality level.
    Player employee quality is rated by the employer, and the employer is rated by the employee.
    Ships are also manufactured at production nodes, which are player-ownable, with the probable exception of Capital ships.
    We will not be able to 'invent' new items, but we will be able to upgrade factory equipment to create items with different levels of quality.
    Mining will be skill-based; if you don't do it the right way (example: targeting an ore vein with a laser), there is a chance the asteroid will be destroyed along with any ore.

    In SC you will have to pay landing tariffs, you’ll have running costs and will have to pay taxes on the goods you sell (in the more civilized parts of the universe). These taxes pay for the infrastructure and law and order (just like in the real world). By properly simulating how a real economy operates (as there is always a cost to services but almost no one models that) the hope is to avoid some of the issues that you’ve seen in other MMOs.

    With the economy, I want the players to feel like what they do has an impact on the events that unfold," he explains. "It's about ownership: I want players to feel like they're becoming part of the lore, the history of this galaxy.

    From Rob Irving, Lead Designer:

    The economy will be "player-influenced, but not player-controlled"
    It will be easier to exert control over small fringe markets than large ones, but it will still be a challenge.
    You probably won't be able to build ships or guns from specific manufacturers initially.
    Population = workers; happiness = productivity. If the people aren't happy, they might leave. So population/happiness is critical to the economy.
    Ship customization will be extremely in-depth and intricate.
    Owning a factory will be a very hands-on experience... and it will be a HUGE undertaking to own one.
    There will be some insurance companies that take care of the slightly-less-law-abiding citizens, as well. (That won't stop the Advocacy from hunting you down, though.)
    Overclocking will most likely have an impact on the lifespan of a part.
    Stolen property may very well be impounded when a criminal is captured or killed. But no definite answers on that yet.
    [on the stock market] Probably not, but I never say never.
    Even if we DID have one, we'd try to avoid duplicating real-life stock scams. They are NOT fun in-game.
    We're not making a market sim.
    We are not planning on taking crafting to the level of building actual parts. We've discussed owning factories and also tweaking existing parts, but I don't see players sitting around knitting laser cannons.
    Factories will collect raw materials (or pre-built parts) to manufacture finished goods, but we will most likely not be letting people mix and match random pieces on, say, handguns to make new variants.
    Players will be able to own factories in many stages of the supply chain - from an ore refinery that churns out metal ingots, plates, and beams, to higher-level factories that actually produce consumer goods.
    It is unlikely that EVERYTHING will be salvageable.
    [on contracts] We will have some form of that, although its precise nature is yet to be determined.
    There will be some sort of exchange fees when transferring property.
    There will be a pretty detailed repair/wear/damage system.
    Cargo can be insured.
    If a player owns a node, they can influence what missions are available and who gets them.
    Not every node can be player-controlled. Many powerful corporations will always maintain control of their own nodes.
    When a mission is generated, there should be ample time for players in the system or nearby ones to accept before an NPC takes the mission.
    Some facilities will buy needed materials from people without contracts - to a point - but they won't overbuy something that they've already contracted for.
    I think we'll have some sort of used ship dealers.
    Haggling is a whole lot of coding/design/voice effort for a pretty minor bit of functionality, so maybe not.
    There will be several ways to prevent monopolies, price-fixing and anti-competitive conduct by player groups.
    There will be some system of credit, i.e. borrowing and lending.
    Corporation/group ownership of assets: We're still working out how joint ownership would function, but I anticipate that there will be some form of that.
    [on earning passive income] We'll see. I'm a firm believer in actually having to play to earn money.
    You won't be able to build randomly, no. There will be some level of expansion in some locations, however.
    If [a] node is [out of money], then it can't pay for services. That would cause the node to go out of business - or a more financially-capable manager to move in.
    Let's just say that our economy is as closed as possible [i.e. currency is neither created nor destroyed].
    We're still working out what commodities will be available, but you won't be able to make a product out of thin air... certainly not in the initial release.
    [on managing nodes remotely] Given communication difficulties, you'll probably have to be at or near your node. But we'll see.
    We might let you own social nodes, but right now, that's not our focus.
    On why players won't be able to build ships (at launch):
    1) Ship manufacturers don't like competition.
    2) We need to keep very tight controls on how many ships are out there. Letting players loose in that world will cause very serious imbalances in the economy.
    You're not required to have contracts. But a contract guarantees a buy, whereas random trading might make you work harder.
    As long as there is an Idris available, you could buy one in game. Otherwise, you have to wait until the next one rolls off of the production line.
    Morale is a combination of factors: having enough of the basics (food, water, construction materials, etc.), having luxuries and/or contraband, medical care, etc.
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  • Sengar

    Posts: 840

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    Nice thread, just taking it all in and may comment again in a bit
    k9x3o2V.png
  • Praefectus

    Posts: 578

    Posted:
    Posted:
    daem3an:
    [hide]

    I've updated the thread with some more info and quotes on performance tuning (overclocking), and I've also added the third section: Ship Modification. Enjoy!

    As always, please feel free to suggest adding anything important that I've missed, Im not under any illusion that the info here is comprehensive. ;)

    need to add thrusters to your pipes table .... get power in from main power and send out to the heat pipe and the data pipe and I would think the data pipe would always be 2 way such as you have to tell the radar what range to operate at or the thrusters and power plant what power lvl to use.

    Edit*
    also would change radar to avionics covers other things like scanners and communications we know from the ask a developer forum that operating scanners and comms has an impact on your signature when other ships are looking for you.
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

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    MISCELLANY (August 2013)

    From Pete Mackay, Designer:
    • If a supply lane is getting raided the local authorities or station owners will respond to the threat. You won't be able to shoot fat turkeys all day without someone noticing ;)


    • Right now the default method of engaging in the economy is as a free trader, buying and selling goods at locations you find. Missions tend to come into play when a node is being starved of something that it needs and are totally optional. You could still be hauling in the goods as a free trader without the contract, your prices just won't be locked in at a contracted rate. As a free trader (and even a free trader under contract) when you buy goods for transport they are your property until you sell them to a buyer.


    • The mechanics behind shipping cargo that you are not the owner of is still being worked out but allowing players to become spaceUPS is a gameplay style that we want to support.


    • We're definitely not going down a per use degradation system. That was one of the things I hated about FE, I felt like I was being disincentivised from using my weapons because I didn't wan't them to wear out.


    • Some items will be more susceptible to degradation than others and definitely plays into the reason you might select one part over another, but the specifics of how that works is something we're going to leave to the players to figure out, at least for now. :)


    • We don't have anything called durability, but we do track two stats that could be related to it: Health and Condition. Health is the HP value of the part used when determining when a part explodes in combat, while condition represents how 'beat up' the part has become over time and represents its overall decrease in effectiveness.


    • You can always repair the HP of a part to full after combat, but condition is unrecoverable.


    • Ship based mining will require that you are online and active. We are still exploring whether there will be other ways to mine that will allow for any collection of materials while a player is offline (letting players own a mine economy node for example which is TBD). If we do we'll make sure that this is taken into account when we balance out the economy.


    • Instead of going the 'faction gear vendor' route we are building a system where almost all of the parts are available to everyone (if you can find/afford them), but whether or not its legal for you to install the part on your ship depends on your standing with the authority in the system in which you are operating, whether it be the UEE, a crime lord in lawless territory or in Xi'an space. Our intention for going this route is to provide a wide range of player choice with meaningful repercussions. How military service contributes to this system outside of the usual benefit to becoming a Citizen is still to be determined.


    • We like the idea of single players being able to accomplish every step in the 'mining loop', but allowing for players to specialize in one part of the process in order to support a team.


    • Effective mining will require the cooperation of several players, but even the plucky Aurora can engage in solo mining! Tractor beams will likely play a role in scooping up loose material while you'll be removing valuables with mining lasers. By separating out the functionality we help support the various roles we envision in the mining system. One player might wish to do nothing but cut rock, while a friend could be scooping the rock with his tractor beam and hauling it back to be processed.


    • Something to consider is that loot drops are a huge source of inflation into an economy (there are several publicly available articles about this on various gamedev websites if you're interested). Because of this most ships you encounter in the game won't drop any ship parts that you can clean up and use later (or sell). We definitely want to have a salvage mechanic but our current leaning is that it will be something closer to being a Robert Ballard inspired shipwreck finder than a loot-fest pinata whacking simulation. :)
    Jalak:
    [hide]

    need to add thrusters to your pipes table .... get power in from main power and send out to the heat pipe and the data pipe and I would think the data pipe would always be 2 way such as you have to tell the radar what range to operate at or the thrusters and power plant what power lvl to use.

    Edit*
    also would change radar to avionics covers other things like scanners and communications we know from the ask a developer forum that operating scanners and comms has an impact on your signature when other ships are looking for you.

    Thrusters would be a good addition to that table, comms as well. As for avionics, it already shows the radar (I'm equating this with scanner) as a system connected to the avionics pipe, along with the avionics CPU and weapons - but maybe I'm misunderstanding the comment. That diagram was pulled from the Engineering document (http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/engineering-ship-components-systems/). I'm sure some of that info is already outdated, hopefully they'll release a more detailed version but if not I can update this one.
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  • Spinfusor

    Rear Admiral

    Posts: 275

    Posted:

    Rear Admiral

    Posted:
    This is just awesome! Nice work!

    You plan on hosting this info on a dedicated site? I am more interested in trading than combat.
  • Borsti

    Posts: 254

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Nice work!

    I just think some points aren't to be taken too literally -

    "First and perhaps most importantly: MOST items in the game will come from the crafting system."

    Doesn't this contradict other entries - until you count NPC crafted items in.


    "Each star system will have a pre-determined number of people, made up of NPCs and players."
    "When a player enters the system, they take the place of an NPC."
    As long as the NPCs are there, they are living, working, trading, pirating, manufacturing, or whatever else -- just as a player would do.

    I don't think it's a fixed number, more a range.
    I also don't think the game will calculate millions of NPC separately, just the population of a system and calculate the overall input and output and spawn NPCs doing things and missions from there when a player comes by for interaction.
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Maligand:
    [hide]

    Nice work!

    I just think some points aren't to be taken too literally -

    "First and perhaps most importantly: MOST items in the game will come from the crafting system."

    Doesn't this contradict other entries - until you count NPC crafted items in


    "Each star system will have a pre-determined number of people, made up of NPCs and players."
    "When a player enters the system, they take the place of an NPC."
    “As long as the NPCs are there, they are living, working, trading, pirating, manufacturing, or whatever else -- just as a player would do.”

    Thanks. All good points.

    I believe the statement that most items will come from crafting (as opposed to loot drops) is an important one.

    Looking at crafting in the context of Star Citizen, the game seems to be blurring the distinction between NPC and PC in a number of ways in order to create an immersive, believable persistent universe. The way the population and economy work, it doesn't matter if a player is involved in one piece of the production chain or all tasks, each step in the 'crafting' process still has to happen for an item to be added to the game. The players are merely part of the existing population.

    I realize some might not consider it crafting unless a player performs all actions in the chain. On the other hand, with the automatically-generated missions, that might not be practical, or even possible for most players without serious time to dedicate and friends to help out - and there's no way to tell the difference if they did.

    I don't think it's a fixed number, more a range.
    I also don't think the game will calculate millions of NPC separately, just the population of a system and calculate the overall input and output and spawn NPCs doing things and missions from there when a player comes by for interaction.

    That's true. I've reworded the part about 10% to be a little clearer, and I also added part of this quote from Chris:

    'We don’t simulate the AI stuff if you aren’t actually seeing it, but we resolve it. So, “OK, you flew your mission and there’s a 50 percent chance you got jumped by a pirate, and if you got jumped by a pirate you would’ve expended one to three missiles.” So that AI character would go, “OK, I need to buy more missiles.” And he’d go to the factory to buy more missiles.'
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Greatcat:
    [hide]

    This is just awesome! Nice work!

    You plan on hosting this info on a dedicated site? I am more interested in trading than combat.

    I hadn't really considered it, but that's not completely out of the question, I suppose. I'm also (as you can probably tell) interested in the trading aspects of the game, although it's usually a means to an end. A steady source of income buys you a lot of freedom to focus on other adventures. Kind of like Tony Stark. ;)
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  • Fragfire

    Posts: 23

    Posted:
    Posted:
    the tractor beam of the 315p is Class 2 and not Class 4
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  • Revolver

    Posts: 138

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Thanks for putting all this together!

    Is there any Information around if there will be something like a "production/crafting" Alpha or Beta testing module in the future?
    Project full Chaos
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    the tractor beam of the 315p is Class 2 and not Class 4

    Good catch, thanks, I've update that, and merged it with the info from the Engineering article below (from March, I think?). Looks like this is all still evolving. I guess a tractor beam is classified as a 'weapon'?

    Class 1 Weapon: Forward-fixed weapons that can mount larger weapon systems.
    Class 2 Weapon: Gimbal-mounted weapons that have limited pivot in a fixed direction. The increased cone of fire comes at the cost of smaller weapon size.
    Class 3 Hardpoint: Class 3 hardpoints can mount a variety of underbelly gear such as missile racks or extra fuel tanks.
    Class 4 Hardpoint: Generally used to mount turrets, some ships can also use these hardpoints for increased cargo space and other ships systems.
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  • Arakk

    Posts: 33

    Posted:
    Posted:
    I have to say that something like bounty hunting should not be simply grouped with, or simply stems from piracy. Bounty hunters work for whoever they see fit. Be it pirates, legitimate businesses, or private contractors.
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    Thanks for putting all this together!

    Is there any Information around if there will be something like a "production/crafting" Alpha or Beta testing module in the future?

    I haven't heard anything about that specifically but there will be a simulator for testing setups and performance tuning, so I wouldn't rule out seeing that as part of the early alpha for the hangar module.

    "the ship system we documented, we already have it functioning in the game and in the engine." - CR

    I'd guess a crafting/production alpha/beta won't happen until the full PU is running, as it kind of requires the entire production and supply chain, complete with NPCs to work.

    In one of Ben's comments in the Ask a Dev section he mentioned an FPS alpha. I hadn't heard that before, unless he's referring to the Planteside alpha. So maybe there are other alphas planned as well - they have to test it at some point!
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  • adambomb

    Posts: 4663

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Do you know if we will have overclocking shops or not.. I mean where we or NPCs will have overclocking equipment to make better devices. Where we either buy a shop or buy the equipment to overclock different brands and devices. If we had to buy all the different equipment to overclock all the different brands and devices, we could set our own shop up. Is this possible, just think another money sink and occupation for us to at least try to overclock devices and sell them to other players.
    "EMPEROR NAPOLEON BONAPARTE XXIV"....QUOTE ...."Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" .......Still need corvette (got frigate now), destroyer, escort carrier, and battle cruiser.... Got the rest.
  • adambomb

    Posts: 4663

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Do you know if we will have overclocking shops or not.. I mean where we or NPCs will have overclocking equipment to make better devices. Where we either buy a shop or buy the equipment to overclock different brands and devices. If we had to buy all the different equipment to overclock all the different brands and devices, we could set our own shop up. Is this possible, just think another money sink and occupation for us to at least try to overclock devices and sell them to other players. by the way, its a great thread.
    "EMPEROR NAPOLEON BONAPARTE XXIV"....QUOTE ...."Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" .......Still need corvette (got frigate now), destroyer, escort carrier, and battle cruiser.... Got the rest.
  • Infie

    Posts: 16

    Posted:
    Posted:
    I don't really have anything to add. Just wanted to pitch in and acknowledge the work. Great thread, and thanks for a good read and giving me information that I didn't have.
    *Insert pretentious quote here*
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Hylech:
    [hide]

    I have to say that something like bounty hunting should not be simply grouped with, or simply stems from piracy. Bounty hunters work for whoever they see fit. Be it pirates, legitimate businesses, or private contractors.

    Well, my intention was to create an infographic that could easily explain how everything is connected through the economy-generating mission system. There are, of course, a lot of other specific player-run jobs that aren't listed here, such as data couriers or refueling contractors. It's a first draft and it's not the whole picture by any stretch of the imagination (hence the v 1.0).

    Mercenary escort and bounty hunter missions will spawn automatically as a response to crime, but as you pointed out, players will also create their own supply and demand independent of the mission system. The same applies for piracy and almost every other job category in the illustration. A miner might hire pirates to take out a rival, or pirates could do some mining themselves and hire guards. So don't think of it as 'stemming' from anything - whether you decide to take a mercenary contract from a pirate or a miner, the system will respond.

    Customization (performance tuning) is the only one that isn't connected to the mission system in any way that I can see. I should probably move that to the bottom, out of the way of the 'mission generation' bubble.

    I started doing this for myself just for fun one morning when I was up too early and had some time on my hands. I decided to post it to the forum because I knew it would be much better with the help of the community. So I appreciate the input.
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Updated the infographic in the OP to v1.1. Performance Tuning is now outside of the mission generating system.
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    [hide]

    Do you know if we will have overclocking shops or not.. I mean where we or NPCs will have overclocking equipment to make better devices. Where we either buy a shop or buy the equipment to overclock different brands and devices. If we had to buy all the different equipment to overclock all the different brands and devices, we could set our own shop up. Is this possible, just think another money sink and occupation for us to at least try to overclock devices and sell them to other players. by the way, its a great thread.

    My interpretation is the performance tuning is strictly a player-run enterprise. It's been stated that we can own storefronts so I can imagine someone who spends the time to really get good at tweaking can run a store specializing in premium upgraded parts. and probably make a very good profit. It might be very expensive to get started though, due to the high cost of experimentation. I'm assuming the test bench will allow you to play around with kitting out ships, but the actual tweaking is trial and error, just like oveclocking.
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Someone has asked me to clarify the info that I've posted regarding Refinery Labs. I'm sure others might be wondering the same thing.

    As I mentioned in the OP, some of this is my interpretation (I'll be using this phrase a lot) of the information that has been confirmed.

    Firstly, the ships document refers to Refinery lab, tools/equipment and stations.

    "Refinery Tools – larger ships are capable of tractoring in spaceborne junk and asteroids. With a refinery lab aboard your ship you can reduce them to their core components, increasing immediate resale value."

    "Starfarers are ubiquitous on both sides of the fueling process: their massive tanks allow for both the collection of space borne fuel from gas giants and extrasolar sources as well as the transport of active fuel from refinery stations to the primary market. Though the stock model lacks refinery equipment, the Starfarer does have docking mechanisms allowing it to conduct in-flight refueling operations with most spacecraft classes."

    http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/ships-plan/

    Refinery equipment and stations are mentioned in context of refining collected gases into fuel. Refinery labs and tools are mentioned in context of refining salvaged materials and asteroids into their core components. Although I missed the first 24-hr livestream, I've read that Ben talked some more about refining gases into fuels.

    The rest is my interpretation of where they're going with this (it's possible I got this from one of Chris's many interviews, but I don't have an official source for it). I find it doubtful that factory production nodes will accept raw mined ore as materials for manufacturing components. Therefore I'm guessing there will be a refining step for mined materials just like there is for asteroids, fuel and salvage in order to convert it into something more useful. But until I can find a source, this isn't confirmed.
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  • TRON

    Posts: 2887

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Awesome work, love this stuff even if some of it is speculation is very well done. Some good info there. :)
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Thanks, the vast majority of the info here is official and confirmed, sources are at the bottom of the OP. The diagram at the top is my creation though, so feel free to nitpick ;).
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  • TRON

    Posts: 2887

    Posted:
    Posted:
    daem3an:
    [hide]

    Thanks, the vast majority of the info here is official and confirmed, sources are at the bottom of the OP. The diagram at the top is my creation though, so feel free to nitpick ;).

    Has any sort of Navy been confirmed? For example in freelancer their was bretonia, kusari, liberty, and rheinland navy's, we used to roleplay those navy factions and we would defend our respective territory's, liberty navy would stay in liberty space for defence etc, only leaving for war times or surgical strikes that were not common.

    I am wondering if we will have Alien Navy's against the UEE Navy, would be pretty cool.
  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:





    Yes, the UEE military is comprised of Army, Navy and Marines. There's also the Advocacy which handles intelligence, espionage and law enforcement. For the sake of simplicity, I'm representing all of these as 'law enforcement' in the economy diagram.

    The relationship between the different branches is explained here: https://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/engineering-designing-the-uee-logos/

    I think there's some more info in the Spectrum Dispatch section as well. Alien navies have been mentioned in some of the fiction.
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  • Eschatos

    Posts: 12444

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Eidolonius' SC Game Economy Blog. A lot of fun stuff here: http://eidolonius.com/dablog/

    I also updated the OP with a resource management subsection, and refinery lab is now connected to basic goods as well as refined goods to reflect components refined from salvage.
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  • HighGround

    Posts: 1494

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Nice thread, thanks
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  • Captain_Harlock

    Moderator

    Posted:
    daem3an:
    [hide]



    Rough diagram of the economy as we know it (thus far*):



    There's crime, that is not related to Piracy

    for example
    I can be a Business Tycoon and put a Bounty to take out my competition

    That's a legit Bounty Hunter job, and it generated a mission.


    Also Insurance / Repair / Medical is not only related to Piracy
    You will be engaging with Insurance, on an accidental destruction while flying into a Jump Point

    You will be needing repair when you crash into an asteroid, maybe you were going too fast on the race track or something

    You will probably need medical as well if you survived the uncharted black hole / jump point exit that caused the ship to explode

    Resource gathering should be linked to factory and insurance, not to pirate

    I've no idea why Explorer would be linked to Pirates,

    You'd think Explorers will rather be away from them, while probability states cargo runners (transportation) will have a much much higher chance to see Pirates often


    You are forgetting to list Alien Assaults, mainly Vanduuls
    they are not Pirates, but they also generate jobs for Mercenary Escorts, UEE police
    Explorers will have a high likely hood to come across Vanduuls and other aliens

    I suppose by Production Node you are referring to Factory?

    I think that's it from now, lets wait and see the revised chart :)



    Big Note: your tittle is very misleading, there's no crafting in game, we only have OverClocking & Parts Customization

    The factory production, is restricted to what the factory produces when you captured the factory, you don't produce your own parts for sale in there.
  • adambomb

    Posts: 4663

    Posted:
    Posted:
    Excellent thread, I'm going to be trading, But actually trying to create an Empire of factories or companies. Mostly ran by NPCs of course, any way I'm going to try it with my overbearing Napoleon XXIV complex,, (we are same blood line I think,=)lol
    "EMPEROR NAPOLEON BONAPARTE XXIV"....QUOTE ...."Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake" .......Still need corvette (got frigate now), destroyer, escort carrier, and battle cruiser.... Got the rest.
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